# Retaliatory tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322 "2025-01-24T04:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/541 "2025-04-09T01:56:06Z")
This is crazy. Trump can make tariffs 154% or a billion percent or whatever the Russians fined Google, but it is still self-defeating and random. Random is no way to run an economy. The only point to Trump’s ridiculousness is if no one thought he would negotiate, since that is why factories might decide they have to be located in America. With all this craziness and inconsistency, spending three billion dollars and eight years to build a car plant seems like a decision one can delay since next week everything will be different. The highest tariffs, apart from China and Lesotho, went to St. Pierre and Miquelon. 50%!!! Either Trump really dislikes Poilievre or crustaceans, since they export little else. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/542 "2025-04-09T04:58:28Z")
10 year yield on t-bills is spiking which means they’re having a hard time getting people to buy our treasuries, because the world no longer views the US as stable and reliable. Our debt is revolving. We sell new debt to pay maturing t-bills, so the increase in rate increases the cost of servicing our entire debt. That’s going to be tens of billions of dollars per year more paid in interest because of the damage we’ve done to the world trust in the US. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/543 "2025-04-09T06:14:20Z")
This is all on top of much larger factors like the world boycotting US products and tourists avoiding the US like the plague. Yes, as noted in the image I posted a few posts up, “this will totally make us rich!”. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/544 "2025-04-09T06:36:08Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > … and tourists avoiding the US like the plague. Yeah. Instead of Las Vegas, I’m thinking of Cuba this year. Maybe no gambling, but I can easily see myself relaxing on a beach with a fine Havana cigar. Plus, by going to Cuba, I’m giving another middle finger to the United States. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/545 "2025-04-09T07:25:44Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I’m thinking of Cuba this year. Maybe no gambling, but I can easily see myself relaxing on a beach with a fine Havana cigar. Cuba has long been a favoured destination for Canadian sun-seekers, and many European tourists as well. The absence of MAGAts is currently a major feature, along with warm weather and fine beaches. Consider having that Havana cigar with a well-aged Havana Club rum! 🙂 With the current boycott on US liquor, I actually find that I prefer Havana Club to Bacardi – it’s about the same price, but much richer in flavour. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/546 "2025-04-09T11:32:30Z")
China has raised the tariff on US imports to 84%. So that means Trump needs to go to 154%? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/547 "2025-04-09T13:38:53Z")
And we thought “all the way to eleven” was ridiculous… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/548 "2025-04-09T14:22:38Z")
Is this the most Trump-critical article from Fox News this decade? > **[Donald Trump’s allies, supporters and donors, led by Elon Musk, push to...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/donald-trumps-allies-supporters-donors-led-elon-musk-push-end-tariff-war)** > > While far from the only Republican defector from President Trump's tariff regimen, Elon Musk is among the most prominent. Here are a few others on Team Trump who have their doubts. They even take what seems to be a sarcastic potshot at Navarro: _The aforementioned Navarro, you’ll be happy to hear, went on Fox and guaranteed there will be no recession. So you can all resume regular breathing._ And for Fox, this feels positively scathing: _It doesn’t help Trump that after the early rebound rally yesterday ran out of gas, the Dow dropped another 320 points, after a dramatic decline that has decimated people’s stock holdings and 401-Ks. The Constitution, by the way, says Congress is in charge of tariffs._ Come on, Fox. I know you love Trump, but you gotta love money more, right? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/549 "2025-04-09T14:52:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _The Constitution, by the way, says Congress is in charge of tariffs._ That’s going to be their new line when this keeps going south: “_…so this depression is all their fault!_” 10 to 1 odds they refer to it as a “Democratically controlled Congress” as well. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/550 "2025-04-09T15:11:14Z")
Pelosi, insider trading, sleepy Joe, something something - round up the usual suspects. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/551 "2025-04-09T15:12:57Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This is all on top of much larger factors like the world boycotting US products and tourists avoiding the US like the plague. That is NOT a larger factor than changes in demand for US financial instruments. That’s a speck on the overall picture compared to the price the US government must pay to borrow money. > [@Spoons](#): > > Yeah. Instead of Las Vegas, I’m thinking of Cuba this year. I used to go to Vegas every year. I was looking forward to the WSOP. No chance at all now. I have to go to the USA once, for business, but I’m being paid to do it and I need the business. I wouldn’t go to Cuba though. It’s a dictatorship. Consider the Dominican. Some resorts have gambling! I have heard good things about Hard Rock Punta Cana. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/552 "2025-04-09T15:15:15Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > There is nothing that gives Congress the power to delegate to the President what is reserved to our legislature. This is the same argument Trumpists make to tear down environmental controls. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/553 "2025-04-09T15:31:34Z")
I really wish that this clip was longer to see what the Fox hosts said further into this report. But I refuse to search for more fox video. > Fox News tells a story a small business owner who used to pay $26,000 in tariffs on goods imported from China, but now faces a $346,000 tariff due to Trump’s new 104% tariff on Chinese imports. > > “We think that China is gonna have to pay for it. A special needs toy importer-- when the tariff went into effect, his tariff bill went from $26,000 at midnight to $346,000. And that’s money that’s got to have to come out of his pocket… They think foreign countries have to pay the tariff, that’s not true. Tariffs are being paid by Americans.” > ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/554 "2025-04-09T15:38:37Z")
Help, my leopard is biting my face off! ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/555 "2025-04-09T15:47:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > This is all on top of much larger factors like the world boycotting US products and tourists avoiding the US like the plague. > > That is NOT a larger factor than changes in demand for US financial instruments. That’s a speck on the overall picture compared to the price the US government must pay to borrow money. Well, of course that all depends what direction the bond markets go and how much they change. Right now the bond markets are weakening causing yields to rise, but that’s an extraordinary anomaly when stock markets are tanking. In theory yields should be falling as investors move money from stocks to the bond markets. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/556 "2025-04-09T15:58:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In theory yields should be falling as investors move money from stocks to the bond markets. That theory depends on the assumption that the USA is a rational and stable actor, for now at least that is no longer the case. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/557 "2025-04-09T16:00:04Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In theory yields should be falling as investors move money from stocks to the bond markets Paul Krugman made the same point this morning, and he has a rather scary reason why: > **[The Cost of Chaos: This is Getting Scary](https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/the-cost-of-chaos-this-is-getting)** > > And it’s all on Donald Trump > What we’re actually seeing is investors, especially hedge funds, selling assets in a “[dash for cash](https://www.ft.com/content/623971a1-cd93-43c2-ad8d-ba8815339a24).” When investors sell off bonds, they drive their price down, which means that they push their yield up. Why does this cause the breakeven rate to fall? Because the market for indexed bonds is relatively small and thin, so the rush to sell has a bigger effect in depressing prices and raising interest rates for index bonds than for ordinary bonds. Here he shows a graph of the breakeven inflation rate over the last 22 years, including the 2008 financial crisis and Covid. > Investors weren’t really predicting huge deflation in 2008-9, they were just rushing to sell assets and raise cash. And that’s what’s happening now, although not to the same degree (yet). > In other words, I was looking for guidance about inflation and instead found the telltale signs of an incipient financial crisis. Others, looking at other indicators, from the [basis trade](https://www.ft.com/content/623971a1-cd93-43c2-ad8d-ba8815339a24) to [junk bonds](https://adamtooze.substack.com/p/chartbook-369-are-we-on-the-edge) to struggles to [refinance private loans](https://finance.yahoo.com/news/signs-of-wall-street-stress-pile-up-amid-trump-tariff-turmoil-160857268.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAGu0bWDjX64oO1ifVz2jVAyutmZYEdOnk1y9Km5RCcHJznyNuG0-uz3heCGUkwZAIYd68SKoYFpXTpUUGOp8NdCIn-PLUTyOBz49Nn2kJtWl-3jAIcd-5l1Q7dqa-C3_XT-c2PoDRl7gLAe_EC3RnqaJcMxNk0Z8PEb2D0dw-15V), are seeing the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/558 "2025-04-09T16:01:19Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Well, of course that all depends what direction the bond markets go and how much they change. Right now the bond markets are weakening causing yields to rise, but that’s an extraordinary anomaly when stock markets are tanking. In theory yields should be falling as investors move money from stocks to the bond markets. This is usually true because people have faith that even if the market crashes, in the long run, the United States of America will remain solvent. Given who is at the helm, that’s no longer an assumption that investors feel safe making. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/559 "2025-04-09T16:04:28Z")
I’m gonna’ opine that this puts a pretty fine point on it: > **[Investors flee to German bonds as Trump tariffs spark Treasury sell-off](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/09/trump-tariffs-german-bonds-rise-as-us-treasury-yields-sell-off.html)** > > "Traditionally you might have gone into the U.S. during a period of volatility, but this is a U.S. story. Germany is benefiting from a wider flight to quality." ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/560 "2025-04-09T16:06:00Z")
And thus we move closer to the Euro becoming the world’s reserve currency, instead of the U.S. dollar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=29)