# Retaliatory tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322 "2025-01-24T04:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/41 "2025-01-24T22:52:49Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Most Americans (or Canadians for that matter) don’t even know what potash is, but a huge amount of it is exported from Canada to the USA. Potash is an absolutely irreplaceable product, a critical precursor in the production of fertilizer. The USA cannot stop importing it because you cannot just dig a potash mine tomorrow, there is no practical alternative, and Canada is the biggest producer of it in the world. Russia is the 2nd largest producer, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/42 "2025-01-24T23:12:05Z")
My suggestion, rather than a retaliatory tariff war, which is both understandable and self immolative, and the benefit of being much cheaper would be for our frozen cousins to initiate a fiduciary coalition to build a new world reserve currency. Bit of Stirling, bit of Deutschmark, bit of Yen, bit of Franc, bit of Remimbi, bit of Dollars from other G20 economies. That sort of thing. If Trump doesn’t understand the effect of tariffs, he’d be totally befoggled at the implications of losing reserve currency status, albeit he’d likely thunk out the loss of prestige. Another corollary would be such a move would improve the US long term competitively, through the short term adjustment might be traumatic. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/43 "2025-01-24T23:18:48Z")
This suggestion, for Canada to target US patents, is interesting. I have not seen these arguments elsewhere (limited gift link). > **[Opinion: Canada must hit the U.S. where it hurts most: its lucrative patents](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/gift/2c74378c75ce69f3bd05148883e9aa787edbcaa15de44e8517335ccc76bfb73e/AXZI27GBABG25MFS7CQOBA6YYI/)** > > If the United States declares economic warfare on Canada, we need policies that not only cost U.S. firms but create opportunities for Canadian ones ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/44 "2025-01-25T02:27:49Z")
Even McKinley eventually decided mountains of tariffs were counterproductive. > **[Do tariffs raise inflation?](https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2025/01/23/do-tariffs-raise-inflation)** > > Usually. But the bigger problem is that they harm economic growth and innovation ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/45 "2025-01-25T03:51:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’d venture to guess that the Canadian government would skip tariffs on that one. Would that not be covered under the _United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA)_? Which was signed by trump? It was also ratified by Congress. And a ratified treaty is second only to the Constitution. > [@RickJay](#): > > Most Americans (or Canadians for that matter) don’t even know what potash is, but a huge amount of it is exported from Canada to the USA. Potash is an absolutely irreplaceable product, a critical precursor in the production of fertilizer. The USA cannot stop importing it because you cannot just dig a potash mine tomorrow, there is no practical alternative, and Canada is the biggest producer of it in the world. I did not know that. Canada’s main exports to the USA are (as of a couple years ago, anyway)crude petroleum, cars, and petroleum gas. So gas and heating oil prices will increase. You know those stickers that Had Joe on them saying “I did that” next to the high gas prices? Well, that wasnt true, but this _would_ be trumps fault. Also-Canada is a supplier of natural gas to the United States, and also exports clean electricity to the United States. Not to mention Uranium. > [@RitterSport](#): > > Canada has a trade surplus with the US, so in Trump’s tiny, idiotic, pea brain, that means that Canada is taking advantage of the US or we’re subsidizing them. That sounds right. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/46 "2025-01-25T03:57:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I did not know that. Most of it comes from Saskatchewan. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/47 "2025-01-25T04:03:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Most of it comes from Saskatchewan. Johnny Carson voice- “I did not know that!” My relatives grow wheat. They said it was for Molson beer. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/48 "2025-01-25T04:04:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Would that not be covered under the _United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA)_? Which was signed by trump? It was also ratified by Congress. And a ratified treaty is second only to the Constitution. You must be joking. Trump’s threats against Canada, Mexico, Greenland, and Panama are all violations of the sovereignty of other countries and of international law. His proposed across-the-board tariffs against Canada are a blatant violation of the USMCA which provides for free trade for a wide range of goods and services. Treaty violations mean nothing in Trumpworld. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/49 "2025-01-25T04:18:37Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Wouldn’t other countries raising tariffs just make the problem worse? > > What would Canada gain by doing this? Threatening retaliatory tariffs may cause Trump to back down. Such threats are, as far as I can see, harmless — so long as not carried out. Now, if the threats fail to deter the adversary, you have some hard choices. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/50 "2025-01-25T04:20:25Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Treaty violations mean nothing in Trumpworld. ‘Treatys are like ~~eggs~~ maps, meant to be ~~broken~~ re-written with an official Trump Sharpie’ ~DJT ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/51 "2025-01-25T04:49:12Z")
I did a bit of Googling. Canadian potash is about a $16.5 billion a year industry. A prime candidate for some kind of action. Small enough not to tank the Canadian economy, but critical to US interests. Plus, it would probably be easy to find other customers for it, decreasing any impact on Canada. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/52 "2025-01-25T05:07:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Let’s say that the US puts tariffs on products from Zimbabwe. Hey! We Zimbabweans don’t export much, but when we do export, we really, really need the money! I mean, it usually comes in unmarked notes in paper envelopes, but still. That sweet, sweet US currency is entering the market. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/53 "2025-01-25T06:33:53Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Threatening retaliatory tariffs may cause Trump to back down. Somehow I doubt it. Trump is incapable of admitting error. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/54 "2025-01-25T06:36:28Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > Well, the Economist has an article out on Trump’s admiration of McKinley, and how he was the last president to expand U.S. territory (Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, V.I.). It’s possible that those ridiculous claims about annexing Canada (“51st state”) and Panama and Greenland really are his ultimate goal. Nitpick (but that’s what we do here in the Dope): Reagan was actually the last president to expand US territory.† Understandable that the Economist would miss that factoid, since the expansion was small and flew under most people’s radar. Also, the previous expansion was under Wilson. Again, a very small expansion, but you gave credit for it to McKinley. As far as Canadian response: someone (preferably a Canadian) should write a parody of _American Woman_ titled _American Fascist_‡. That way you’ll have something to sing when the jackbooted American stormtroopers come goosestepping down your street. † It’s unlikely Reagan had anything to do with this expansion other than to sign the enabling legislation and perhaps send congratulatory messages. ‡ Please be a bit more creative than just taking the original lyrics and substituting “fascist” for “woman”. Also, you lose points for getting an AI to do the writing. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/55 "2025-01-25T10:08:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Plus, it would probably be easy to find other customers for it Potash ( KCl) is a bulk commodity; for Canada the US market is attractive because of the (relatively) low freight cost. Finding other viable customers is certainly not easy in terms of either price or volume. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/56 "2025-01-25T10:10:57Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Please be a bit more creative than just taking the original lyrics and substituting “fascist” for “woman”. Also, you lose points for getting an AI to do the writing. See, you’re deliberately constraining our possibilities and thus our growth. The new society is about wealth creation through productivity, and AI is a key part of that. Lyricists can work at Walmart like everyone else. Ya gotta get with the times. Also, “fascist” is now something we use to mean “bad guy”, as a synonym for “woke” or “socialist” or “science-based” or “communist” or “equalitarian”. Our friends Vladimir and Benjamin have helped with that recalibration of speech. No important ~~person~~ man will feel that we’re talking about ~~them~~ him. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/57 "2025-01-25T12:42:19Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > Well, the Economist has an article out on Trump’s admiration of McKinley, and how he was the last president to expand U.S. territory (Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, V.I.). It’s possible that those ridiculous claims about annexing Canada (“51st state”) and Panama and Greenland really are his ultimate goal. Inspired by his friend Vladimir, of course. The tariffs would just be a way to squeeze Canada’s balls to accept some sort of annexation, ideally as a junior territory rather than a state. Nitpik - McKinley had been dead for 16 years when the US purchased the (soon to be US) Virgin Islands in 1917 for $25 million…from Denmark. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/58 "2025-01-25T15:09:48Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > > Threatening retaliatory tariffs may cause Trump to back down. > > Somehow I doubt it. Trump is incapable of admitting error. Agree about not admitting error. But … He has definitely simply dropped various wild ideas that he’d at first enthusiastically trailed. Never to be mentioned again, and blustered past if anyone asks. Which rarely happens because the sycophants in the RW press don’t call him out on forgotten promises, and the sane press just hopes it stays forgotten. I doubt tariffs on (some token) Chinese goods will be “forgotten”. The Canadian ones might be. Or dropped to great fanfare that not doing something he said he’d do is some sort of victory for him. Not for the USA, but for him personally. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/59 "2025-01-25T15:46:53Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Threatening retaliatory tariffs may cause Trump to back down. No they won’t. What WILL cause Trump to back down is congresspeople, governors and business leaders panicked by the tariffs screaming at the White House and threatening to withdraw support because their constituents are howling at THEM. First are foremost, politicians act to get votes. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2025, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/60 "2025-01-25T15:54:01Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Plus, it would probably be easy to find other customers for it, decreasing any impact on Canada. This is what everyone says about, well, everything, but it’s not correct. Aside from the fact that there aren’t any customers as big as the USA, this ain’t a Risk map. Establishing new customers means finding them, settling contracts, and then figuring out a way to ship a truly immense volume of stuff across oceans. There is no way at all you could do it as easily. There are good business reasons why things are the way they are now. What Trump wants to do, in effect, is to tax business. He wants to punish a logical, profitable business arrangement. There is NO subsequent solution - literally none - that could fully make up for such folly. You will be paying more from transport. You will be delayed in creating new business arrangements. Americans will pay far, far more for food. Since this effectively decreases the demand for potash, you won’t make as much money selling it. If the US government starts taxing the shit out of doing business, and then even worse if the tariffed countries respond with tariffs, you will not be able to do business as well. **There is no way around that**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=4)