# Retaliatory tariffs **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322 "2025-01-24T04:48:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/141 "2025-02-02T02:29:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s a prelude to actual war. Make no mistake. Stock up on food and water. I’ve already started that. > [@Canad opera: vWhat should be on my emergency grocery list tonight?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/canad-opera-vwhat-should-be-on-my-emergency-grocery-list-tonight/1013740): > > I’m going on a grocery shopping list as soon as the PM is done talking. What should I get? Toilet paper Flour Sugar Bread Cereals Dog and cat food Frozen foods Chicken and hamburger Thoughts? Plus will fill my gas tank. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/142 "2025-02-02T02:35:44Z")
Rice, oil, canned fish and beans will keep you alive. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/143 "2025-02-02T03:03:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > People are saying that when Trump raises tariffs on various countries, they will likely retaliate by raising tariffs on American goods. > > Why? > > Trump’s tariffs are likely to hurt both sides. Wouldn’t other countries raising tariffs just make the problem worse? > > What would Canada gain by doing this? Let’s skim through some of the economic justifications for protectionism. 1. Infant industry argument. Protect one of your new industries until it’s ready to compete internationally. 2. National security. If there’s a war, the US will need computer chips and Jeeps, so we should be sure to have a domestic industry that produces these things. And relevant here: 1. Raise your tariffs to encourage your counterpart to negotiate. Raise tariffs on Japanese cars to encourage them relax their restrictions on US skis. Or in this case, ban imports of products from red US states to encourage Trump to negotiate. He’s caved in the past after all. Canadians are feeling betrayed. They should know that the US business community is analogously flummoxed. Paul Krugman points out that Goldman Sachs forecasted only a 20% chance of trade war on January 21st, despite Trump’s repeated statements that he wanted exactly that. [Cite](https://bsky.app/profile/pkrugman.bsky.social/post/3lh5rc7we2c2i). Krugman agrees that the only thing that Trump will respond to is a stock market crash. So for the sake of the US prosperity, Canada should hit hard this weekend, so that US financiers takes Trump seriously and literally. > [@RickJay](#): > > These businesses cannot effectively function when the US government is clowning around like this. Sure they can. They can learn to function like companies in middle and lower income countries do. The normal state of the world is to appease powerful rulers and shape your investments and supply chains accordingly. Managers in first world nations are like hothouse orchids, very naive about the real world. It’s time that they learn what the real word entails: it’s like Russia. It’s poor. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/144 "2025-02-02T03:43:27Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > They can learn to function like companies in middle and lower income countries do. The normal state of the world is to appease powerful rulers and shape your investments and supply chains accordingly. Managers in first world nations are like hothouse orchids, very naive about the real world. It’s time that they learn what the real word entails: it’s like Russia. It’s poor. There’s a reason lower income countries are lower income: businesses cannot effectively function when the government is clowning around like this. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/145 "2025-02-02T07:04:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > There’s a reason lower income countries are lower income: businesses cannot effectively function when the government is clowning around like this. Yes. I’ve read about this sort of clowning for decades in the Economist for various lower and middle income countries. Successful countries organize production according to efficiency. There’s a lot of ruin in a nation, but these policies are recipes for stagnation at best. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/146 "2025-02-02T07:44:33Z")
Larry Summers: > > **[Thread by @LHSummers on Thread Reader App](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1885826307788767410.html)** > > @LHSummers: Aside from the general issues about Trump‘s tariff and his economic nationalism strategy, today’s actions against Canada and Mexico are inexplicable and dangerous. 1/8 First, the tariffs will raise price...… ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/147 "2025-02-02T08:57:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s a prelude to actual war. Make no mistake. Stock up on food and water. Screw that. I’ve stocked up on ammunition. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/148 "2025-02-02T13:27:51Z")
Some news items (some are paywalled, but trying to give a general scan): [https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-trudeau-announces-counter-tariffs-2025-02-02/](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-trudeau-announces-counter-tariffs-2025-02-02/) > **[Here's how tariffs on Canada, China and Mexico may impact U.S. consumers](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/31/how-tariffs-on-canada-china-and-mexico-may-impact-us-consumers.html)** > > President Donald Trump signed orders on Saturday placing tariffs on Canada, China and Mexico. Here's how that may affect U.S. consumers. > **[Tariffs will shut down North American auto production within a week, industry...](https://thelogic.co/news/canada-tariffs-auto-industry-car-prices/?lt=1)** > > Canada’s auto sector exported $51 billion worth of vehicles in 2023 and 93 per cent of them went to the U.S. Within days, the entire industry could shut down. > **[The Price America Will Pay for Trump’s Tariffs](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/02/price-america-trump-tariffs/681546/)** > > Alienating allies and partners that the U.S. desperately needs means that “America First” will be “America Alone.” > **[Canada, Mexico announce retaliatory tariffs on US imports in response to...](https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/canada-mexico-announce-retaliatory-tariffs-us-imports-response-trumps-tariffs-american-neighbors)** > > Canada and Mexico each announced tariffs on U.S. imports on Saturday in retaliation for U.S. President Donald Trump placing tariffs on America's neighbors. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-01/canada-poised-to-retaliate-against-trump-tariffs-while-rethinking-us-reliance](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-01/canada-poised-to-retaliate-against-trump-tariffs-while-rethinking-us-reliance) > **[Braid: Bring on the day when furious countries refuse to trade with U.S.](https://calgaryherald.com/news/braid-bring-on-the-day-when-furious-countries-refuse-to-trade-with-u-s)** > > Trump is playing with forces far stronger than he expects - Canada and other nations should band into a rival trading bloc > **['Canadian rye over Kentucky bourbon, stay in Canada for vacation': Trudeau's...](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/canadian-rye-over-kentucky-bourbon-stay-in-canada-for-vacation-trudeaus-appeal-after-trump-imposes-tariffs/articleshow/117851093.cms)** > > Rest of World News: Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau urged citizens to support domestic products in response to US President Donald Trump's tariffs on Canadian good > **[What items will cost more? What to know about Trump's tariffs on Canada,...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2025/01/31/trump-tariffs-will-prices-go-up-down/78094724007/)** > > The White House confirmed the U.S. will impose tariffs on Canada, Mexico, and China starting Saturday. > **['Tariffs are not the answer': Industry and corporate leaders react to Trump...](https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/01/tariffs-are-not-the-answer-industry-and-corporate-leaders-react-to-trump-tariffs-on-mexico-canada-and-china.html)** > > Industry and corporate leaders are weighing in after the Trump administration confirmed it will move forward with tariffs on imported goods from Canada, Mexico and China. > **[‘We just can’t take the hit’: businesses worldwide brace as Trump threatens...](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/26/trump-tariffs-businesses-global-worldwide)** > > Across the world, exporters to the US are preparing for an era of disruption if tariffs are imposed > **[How Trump tariffs could upend car markets in Europe, the US and China](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/29/trump-tariffs-car-markets-europe-us-china-ev-tesla)** > > Levies threaten exporters to US market, while scrapping of subsidies will hit EV sales – and Tesla could gain ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/149 "2025-02-02T16:12:07Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Screw that. I’ve stocked up on ammunition. Sadly I don’t have a PAL. Trump is now saying again on Truth Social that his goal is annexation. ---
**Author:** ![Ellecram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellecram/32/18948_2.png) [@Ellecram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellecram)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/150 "2025-02-02T16:26:34Z")
This is getting heated and unpredictable on the global stage. I am 67 and live alone. I can’t see how a gun would help me. If they come for me I hope they put me down quickly. If there was any way I could join a resistance in a peripheral manner I would. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/151 "2025-02-02T17:46:44Z")
Economic analysis from Yale: > [@](#): > > But the taxes may throw the global economy into turmoil and significantly worsen inflation in the US - which has already increased the prices of groceries, fuel, housing, cars and other goods. > > A new analysis by the Budget Lab at Yale University found that the average US household would lose the equivalent of $1,170 US dollars (£944) in income from the tariffs. The research also found that economic growth would slow and inflation would worsen - especially if Canada, Mexico and China retaliate. > > “It doesn’t make much economic sense,” said William Reinsch, senior adviser at the Centre for Strategic and International Studies and a former US trade official. > > “Historically, most of our tariffs on raw materials have been low because we want to get cheaper materials so our manufacturers will be competitive… Now, what’s he talking about? He’s talking about tariffs on raw materials. I don’t get the economics of it.” > **[Canada and Mexico hit back with retaliatory tariffs on US as Donald Trump...](https://news.sky.com/story/amp/donald-trump-imposes-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-and-china-risking-global-economic-disruption-13301470)** > > The leaders of Mexico and Canada - two of the US's largest trading partners - have responded to the US president's steep taxes on imports. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/152 "2025-02-02T17:49:15Z")
Plus this : > Mr Trump appears to be preparing more import taxes. > On Friday, he suggested imported computer chips, steel, oil and natural gas, as well as copper, pharmaceutical drugs and imports from the European Union may be subject to tariffs, which could pit the US against much of the global economy. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/153 "2025-02-02T17:56:44Z")
During all the years I worked as an interpreter for international institutions I always had to remember that there is a thing called “**[most favoured nation status](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation)**” that was applied in the **[GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Agreement_on_Tariffs_and_Trade)** that was taken over by the **[WTO (World Trade Organisation)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Trade_Organization)** which basically stated this: > Under rules of WTO, a member country is not allowed to discriminate between trade partners and if a special status is granted to one trade partner, the country is required to extend it to all members of WTO. In a nutshell, MFN is a non-discriminatory trade policy as it ensures equal trading among all WTO member nations rather than exclusive trading privileges. The USA are a member of the WTO. How are those tariffs not discriminatory, and thus illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/154 "2025-02-02T17:59:44Z")
Why would a convicted felon worry about legalities? Longer answer: China has stated that they will challenge the 10% tariff in the WTO process, which is notoriously slow. We’ll have to wait a while for an answer. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/155 "2025-02-02T18:27:00Z")
Would it be possible for the EU and/or Canada/Mexico to apply tariffs to specific companies? Or does it have to be an entire sector? Just wandering what would happen to the share price of Musk owned businesses if Tesla, xitter, and Starlink suddenly got banned in half of the world. A large chunk of Musks wealth is based on share options in these companies. It sure would be a shame if they were suddenly to crash. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/156 "2025-02-02T19:19:56Z")
It is funny though that China just got a 10% tariff in the end, less than even the most optimistic scenario laid out by experts like at [The Economist](https://www.eiu.com/n/the-impact-of-us-tariffs-on-china-three-scenarios/). It must be a great relief to the Shanghai Tesla factory, and the factories that make various vulgar Trump tat, like his sneakers and watches. (Of course I’m a big fat liar: Trump’s merchandise is all [made in Wyoming](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/10/17/politics/trump-watches-wyoming-invs/index.html), by companies all registered mere weeks before products went on sale, in an office in a shopping mall) ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/157 "2025-02-02T19:25:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Trump is now saying again on Truth Social that his goal is annexation. In case any haven’t seen what Trump has said, here it is: > [@](#): > > We pay hundreds of Billions of Dollars to SUBSIDIZE Canada. Why? There is no reason. We don’t need anything they have. We have unlimited Energy, should make our own Cars, and have more Lumber than we can ever use. Without this massive subsidy, Canada ceases to exist as a viable Country. Harsh but true! Therefore, Canada should become our Cherished 51st State. Much lower taxes, and far better military protection for the people of Canada — AND NO TARIFFS! He is seriously set on imperialism. Canada 51st state. Greenland, 52nd. Sorry Puerto Rico, you are too brown to make it as 53rd. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/158 "2025-02-02T19:32:57Z")
Dani Rodrik called the 2008 financial crisis and is always worth listening to. > **[Dani Rodrik (@drodrik.bsky.social)](https://bsky.app/profile/drodrik.bsky.social/post/3lh7k4vybjk2s)** > > It’s weird that economists and commentators think Trump’s tariffs are crazy (rightly so) but regard retaliation as normal and acceptable (knowing, as they should, that it will not change Trump’s mind and that tariffs’ costs are borne primarily at... > **[Dani Rodrik (@drodrik.bsky.social)](https://bsky.app/profile/drodrik.bsky.social/post/3lh7koielec2s)** > > BTW, perhaps nothing would enrage Trump more than US trade partners brushing the tariffs off and saying we‘ll just find other trade partners, thank you very much. I agree that Canada should be loudly looking for other trade partners, penning a few quick (and therefore meaningless) deals with other countries. As for talk of war, it won’t happen. But preparation for it will assist in it not happening. Canada should leak “quiet” consultations with the Finns, Swedes, and Swiss on assisting those countries in their plans for guerrilla warfare against Russian attack scenarios. The Canadian armed forces have a tradition of highly competent specialization. They should spend, oh, $5 billion on this niche. The weird thing is that they could comfortably maintain their US military ties: the more the US knows about these efforts, the better. It’s not like Canadians could successfully keep scattered armories full of secret weapons. An agile power could develop an interesting and superior drone warfare program. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/159 "2025-02-02T19:48:50Z")
These tariffs are projected to lower Canada’s GDP by 2-3%, costing each Canadian an additional US$1000 per year. Not quite the same is not being viable. They might lead to inflation and job losses in both countries. At most, collecting these tariffs from Canada and Mexico will bring $200 billion to the US (according to The Economist). That could lower income taxes for Americans… by 2%. Of course, Trump wants to pass $5.5 trillion in tax cuts, “which will stimulate things to bring in an estimated $3 trillion in revenue” through the magic of lying. Is that what happened last time he did this? ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322/160 "2025-02-02T20:12:41Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > At most, collecting these tariffs from Canada and Mexico will bring $200 billion to the US (according to The Economist). That could lower income taxes for Americans… by 2%. How much will inflation go up and end up costing the average American? More or less than a hypothetical 2% savings on income tax? Also, do you think the average American will be excited about paying more week in and week out for goods vs seeing a bit of savings once per year? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retaliatory-tariffs/1013322.md?page=9)