# "Retarded" as an Insult **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959 "2009-06-16T16:51:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Auntbeast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Auntbeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Auntbeast)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/41 "2009-06-17T12:26:12Z")
My favorite t-shirt at the moment\*, is a brown shirt, with a pink ribbon that says “Fight Like A Girl.” And yeah, throw like a girl, fight like a girl, etc, don’t exactly make girls feel warm and fuzzy. I’m sure retarded/gay type things don’t either. However, I have a sister-in-law that no one in the family has ever explained to me what exactly is wrong with her, although obviously there is lots wrong, I typically describe her as retarded, for lack of a better description. Learning Disabled gets thrown about, however, she can and does learn to do things she wants to do, and amazingly, can’t learn things she doesn’t. She does have real issues, but damned if I know an accurate, politically correct way to describe them. On the other hand, the “perfectly normal” sister in law, called me when she was 22 and asked how to clean a bathroom. And about 6 months after she was married, her mother called my husband to go to her house and cut the potatoes for her as she was cooking dinner for her husband. Yeah, I use the term retarded a lot. \*Title formerly held by my Goats on the Roof (front) Goatherder (back) tshirt. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/42 "2009-06-17T12:34:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > The odd thing for me is that they AREN’T EVEN CALLED RETARDED ANYMORE! So people who find “retarded” to be offensive are actually, well, unaware of the current state of the English language. The last time I made this assertion on the Dope, I believe I was corrected both by family members of people with the disability, and educators who work with them. So no, it’s not true that “AREN’T EVEN CALLED RETARDED ANYMORE!” And even if it were, everybody would still know who it referred to. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/43 "2009-06-17T12:53:58Z")
I don’t throw like a girl. No, I cannot throw as strongly as men, but I certainly don’t throw like a “girl” - which means, can’t throw it to the destination, can’t make it arc properly, can’t throw it _right_. It has never meant “can’t throw it as strongly as a guy”. I made sure I could throw a baseball/football/what-have-you properly. And I use the word retarded and plan to continue doing so. I don’t ever make fun of actual retarded/developmentally disabled people. Man, I’d be a real shit, wouldn’t I? No, I make fun of things or situations mostly, or occasionally people who should know better and are acting retarded. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/44 "2009-06-17T13:23:34Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I don’t throw like a girl. No, I cannot throw as strongly as men, but I certainly don’t throw like a “girl” - which means, can’t throw it to the destination, can’t make it arc properly, can’t throw it _right_. It has never meant “can’t throw it as strongly as a guy”. I made sure I could throw a baseball/football/what-have-you properly. I agree. Throwing like a girl has at least as much, if not more, to do with the style of throwing as it does with the strength of the throw. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/45 "2009-06-17T14:47:15Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Why would I do that? Beeeeeeeecause I misread your post as saying that you’d stop saying “that’s so gay” if you could find a better word. My bad. > [@mswas](#): > > It is to a large degree about training, but at the same time more boys learn how to throw well than girls, and there are reasons for that. Girls just are not as strong as boys in general, and that strength translates into pitching power. 1.) More boys learn to throw well than girls because more boys are taught \*and \*more boys are encouraged to have an interest in learning how to throw well. 2.) “Throwing like a girl” isn’t about _power_, it’s about _technique_. 3.) At the age where this insult is usually used (pre-puberty), the hormonal differences that will, e.g., cause the boys to be able to develop more muscle more easily than the girls haven’t shown up yet. > [@Cisco](#): > > Taking “you throw like a girl” seriously is about 10 times sillier than saying it. Okay. From now on, anytime I see someone taking a nap, I’m going to tell them to “stop being such a lazy Mexican.” But you can’t get offended by it, because it’s silly to take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/46 "2009-06-17T14:57:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > And yet if you took trained men and trained women and put them in a Baseball/Softball/Basketball match, the Men are probably going to win. No shit. However, if we must pursue this hijack to the end: “You throw like a girl” doesn’t mean “you throw less well than an adult male athlete.” It means they throw in a weak and uncoordinated manner: usually the un-trained person steps forward with the wrong foot, pushes the ball with a bent wrist, doesn’t extend the arm, and so on, and the ball falls to the ground right away. That’s not how softball players or any other athlete throws, male or female. It’s not a comment on the intrinsic strength of men or women, it’s about how people try to throw a ball when they don’t know how to do it right. The phase means “you don’t know how to throw, and therefore throw like a girl does.” ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/47 "2009-06-17T16:09:38Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > You talk like a fag, and your shit’s all retarded. Don’t worry, scrote. There are plenty of 'tards out there living really kick ass lives. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/48 "2009-06-17T16:22:50Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Really? How about for little girls, in or out of gym class? There are enough words and expressions equating women and girls with weakness and painting boys and men as inferior for even being similar to them. It’s just not helpful. Not in the grand scheme of things and not for girls interested in sports or anything but dawdling in the sidelines during phys ed. Girls are exposed to _a lot_ of this growing up, from childhood to, well, forever I guess. > > I suppose if I said I disliked the expression ‘Crying like a little girl’ or ‘Crying like a woman’ you’d show me a study about how women _do_ cry more than men so really it’s just very logical and rational, like all expressions, and not at all sexist. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Okay. From now on, anytime I see someone taking a nap, I’m going to tell them to “stop being such a lazy Mexican.” But you can’t get offended by it, because it’s silly to take it seriously. Context matters. If it was an adult chiding the little girl in gym class, then it would be a problem. If it’s another kid, then she just needs to screw her confidence up and let it bounce off of her. Kids are going to tease and taunt to some reasonable extent. It’s part of growing up. Giving a kid the tools to deal with it (confidence, a sense of humor, etc) is infinitely better than trying (in absolute futility) to shield him or her from it. It may not apply in every situation 100% of the time, but there is a lot of truth to what Eleanor Roosevelt said: No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. And the lazy Mexican thing: apart from being a bad analogy, every single Mexican I know would laugh at that. They _do_ take naps, you know. They think we’re backwards for working so much without a siesta. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/49 "2009-06-17T16:54:31Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Context matters. If it was an adult chiding the little girl in gym class, then it would be a problem. If it’s another kid, then she just needs to screw her confidence up and let it bounce off of her. Kids are going to tease and taunt to some reasonable extent. It’s part of growing up. Giving a kid the tools to deal with it (confidence, a sense of humor, etc) is infinitely better than trying (in absolute futility) to shield him or her from it. It may not apply in every situation 100% of the time, but there is a lot of truth to what Eleanor Roosevelt said: No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. So sexism is okay when it comes from kids? :rolleyes: Sexist kids grow up to be sexist adults, like racist kids grow up to be racist adults. > [@](#): > > And the lazy Mexican thing: apart from being a bad analogy, every single Mexican I know would laugh at that. They _do_ take naps, you know. They think we’re backwards for working so much without a siesta. Okay, how about the next time I see someone eating watermelon, I tell them to stop being such a nigger? Do you get my point now? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/50 "2009-06-17T17:35:36Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So sexism is okay when it comes from kids? :rolleyes: Sexist kids grow up to be sexist adults, like racist kids grow up to be racist adults. Gimme a break. I hardly think kids are saying “you throw like a girl” as a clever way to disguise their oppression of females. You’re projecting adult worries, fears, and insecurities onto children. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Okay, how about the next time I see someone eating watermelon, I tell them to stop being such a nigger? Do you get my point now? No, because it was a bad analogy to begin with, and it just got worse. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/51 "2009-06-17T17:45:32Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No shit. However, if we must pursue this hijack to the end: > > “You throw like a girl” doesn’t mean “you throw less well than an adult male athlete.” It means they throw in a weak and uncoordinated manner: usually the un-trained person steps forward with the wrong foot, pushes the ball with a bent wrist, doesn’t extend the arm, and so on, and the ball falls to the ground right away. That’s not how softball players or any other athlete throws, male or female. It’s not a comment on the intrinsic strength of men or women, it’s about how people try to throw a ball when they don’t know how to do it right. The phase means “you don’t know how to throw, and therefore throw like a girl does.” Yes, fair enough. But my point is that even if the training were equal, boys would still throw better than girls, on average because of physiological issues. Maybe gender roles developed specifically because of these inherent differences in traits. Back to the OP though. If someone IS retarded how does it insult them to compare someone who is acting stupid to them? Retarded people are not very smart. That’s just how it goes. Whoever mentioned that we used to use the term, ‘idiot’, medically hit the nail on the head. If idiot is acceptable then so is retarded because they are both archaic terms that have fallen out of favor in the medical establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/52 "2009-06-17T17:56:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > No shit. However, if we must pursue this hijack to the end: > > “You throw like a girl” doesn’t mean “you throw less well than an adult male athlete.” It means they throw in a weak and uncoordinated manner: usually the un-trained person steps forward with the wrong foot, pushes the ball with a bent wrist, doesn’t extend the arm, and so on, and the ball falls to the ground right away. That’s not how softball players or any other athlete throws, male or female. It’s not a comment on the intrinsic strength of men or women, it’s about how people try to throw a ball when they don’t know how to do it right. The phase means “you don’t know how to throw, and therefore throw like a girl does.” Moreover, the point behind the insult isn’t, “Ha ha, you have inferior upper body strength!” The implication is that the butt of the insult has never learned how to throw properly, because they’ve spent their time playing with dolls, like a girl, instead of learning how to play sports, like a boy is supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/53 "2009-06-17T18:06:39Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Gimme a break. I hardly think kids are saying “you throw like a girl” as a clever way to disguise their oppression of females. Disguise? What disguise? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/54 "2009-06-17T18:10:49Z")
> [@Cat\_Fight](#): > > Disguise? What disguise? It’s actually not an insult to girls, it’s an insult to boys. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/55 "2009-06-17T18:16:13Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Gimme a break. I hardly think kids are saying “you throw like a girl” as a clever way to disguise their oppression of females. You’re projecting adult worries, fears, and insecurities onto children. Uh, no, it’s kids demonstrating that they’ve been taught that girls can’t be as good as boys at physical activity because they’re girls. Why do you want to encourage that by saying, “Oh, it’s just kids being kids”? How about if they’re telling a classmate she shouldn’t try so hard in math, because girls don’t get math? Or if they mock a classmate for writing a poem for an English assignment, because boys don’t do that? > [@](#): > > No, because it was a bad analogy to begin with, and it just got worse. I fail to see why a comment that paints women as naturally physically incompetent is less insulting than one that says Mexicans are lazy or all Black people like watermelon. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/56 "2009-06-17T18:17:23Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s actually not an insult to girls, it’s an insult to boys. It’s an insult \*used against \*boys, but it is insulting \*to \*girls because it says that they are naturally inferior. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/57 "2009-06-17T18:21:08Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, fair enough. But my point is that even if the training were equal, boys would still throw better than girls, on average because of physiological issues. Missed this one. It’s an irrelevant point. “Throw like a girl” isn’t about _power_, it’s about _technique_. And boys and girls with equal training will probably throw with equal power until around puberty, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/58 "2009-06-17T18:32:10Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > It’s an insult \*used against \*boys, but it is insulting \*to \*girls because it says that they are naturally inferior. And translating this to the original topic of the thread, “Retard” is an insult _used against_ people of (in theory) average intelligence, but it’s insulting _to_ the mentally retarded because it says they are naturally inferior. Agree or disagree with this, I think it gets to the root of the objection. > [@mswas](#): > > If someone IS retarded how does it insult them to compare someone who is acting stupid to them? Retarded people are not very smart. That’s just how it goes. It’s insulting to be the object of this kind of comparison, and “being stupid,” which is to say making the wrong decision, is not the same thing as having a mental impairment. > [@](#): > > Whoever mentioned that we used to use the term, ‘idiot’, medically hit the nail on the head. If idiot is acceptable then so is retarded because they are both archaic terms that have fallen out of favor in the medical establishment. I said that (and so did **Revtim** ). It’s not quite as clear to me that “retarded” is out of favor with the medical establishment, though. And for that matter, if it’s out of favor, it would be because people have made it an insult. It didn’t fall out of favor and THEN get turned into an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/59 "2009-06-17T18:35:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And translating this to the original topic of the thread, “Retard” is an insult _used against_ people of (in theory) average intelligence, but it’s insulting _to_ the mentally retarded because it says they are naturally inferior. Agree or disagree with this, I think it gets to the root of the objection. No, it doesn’t say they’re naturally inferior, it says they naturally have problems with intelligence or comprehension. Which they do. Whereas girls are naturally no worse at throwing baseballs than boys. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959/60 "2009-06-17T18:39:29Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > No, it doesn’t say they’re naturally inferior, it says they naturally have problems with intelligence or comprehension. Which they do. Whereas girls are naturally no worse at throwing baseballs than boys. And “you throw like a girl” doesn’t say girls are naturally inferior, it says they’re inferior at baseball. I’m not particularly trying to get you to stop using “retarded” as an insult; even if everybody stopped it would be replaced immediately by something else that means the same thing. But the objections to it are not so illogical and I think they’re understandable, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retarded-as-an-insult/499959.md?page=4)