# Retirement age discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 5, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519 "2022-03-05T14:28:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/41 "2022-03-06T15:34:12Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > So maybe I’ll decide to collect at 62 and buy those lattes\* since I’m not worried about my basic needs. > > - Not really lattes, of course, but other things I will want to do in my sixties that I may not want or be able to do in my eighties. There’s a difference between vacationing with a six year old grandchild and vacationing with the same grandchild twenty years later. Another factor in this equation for some people is that required minimum distributions will hit a Traditional IRA or 401k at 72. So consider starving yourself for money in the early go go years of retirement, only to collect maximum Social Security and then RMDs at 72, which probably mark the beginning of the go slow years. My plan is much like **Doreen’s** , enjoy the money you saved early, within reason. As for when, I am eligible for retirement in one year at 56, and plan to do so. I’m burned out, and am simply tired of going to work every damn day. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/42 "2022-03-06T16:08:51Z")
I retired 2 years ago at 57. Not bad for an electronics tech with no degree. I’m no financial genius, but just smart enough to follow the advice of others, and start investing in my 20’s. Spent the first retirement year in quarantine, lots of hiking, Scrabble, and mountain biking. Now I’m working 10-15 hours/week at the local hardware store. I work weekends, so Wife and I can take short trips weekdays. I love the work, and the paycheck covers my healthcare premiums. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/43 "2022-03-06T16:59:15Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That’s still somewhat individualistic I think everyone agrees with that. The small point is that is more than a fairly straightforward math problem maximizing gains. It’s also about what your personal fears and values are. > [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Another factor in this equation for some people is that required minimum distributions will hit a Traditional IRA or 401k at 72. So consider starving yourself for money in the early go go years of retirement, only to collect maximum Social Security and then RMDs at 72, which probably mark the beginning of the go slow years. Having to take it out of the IRA or 401K doesn’t mean you need to spend it. Reinvestment is fine, just at different impact for taxes. Again personal fears, values, and I’ll add in, expectations. I’m 62 and enjoy working but more to the point I have little fear of being go slow in ten years. Of course I may be wrong but I expect to live fairly full force until I decline rapidly and die be that at 80 or 100. No grandkids yet. When I have some, if ever, taking off more time to spoil them will appeal. By then I’ll also be wanting to be able to help bootstrap college savings funds for them too. To those who know- I’ve heard that those with least savings at earliest retirement ages tend to retire earlier and those with the most then end up working longer. Is that true? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/44 "2022-03-06T17:13:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To those who know- I’ve heard that those with least savings at earliest retirement ages tend to retire earlier and those with the most then end up working longer. Is that true? My experience is counter to that. I retired young as soon as I could with plenty to last my lifetime barring a freak disaster. To be fair, I am naturally very frugal. My dad was a workaholic. He had more than enough to retire young and then got a very lucrative corporate buyout in his late 50s. He then took on a bunch of more work and was back to 80 hour weeks. He stopped some things over the years but was still working full time when he literally dropped dead a few weeks before his 80th birthday. So he fits the hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/45 "2022-03-06T18:51:17Z")
Trying to google it myself I found [this](https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/96241/delayed_retirement_and_the_growth_in_income_inequality_at_older_ages.pdf) anyway. > [@](#): > > The recent surge in old-age employment has raised income inequality among people age 65 and older: an increasing number of older workers are collecting much higher incomes than older adults who have stopped working (Bosworth, Burtless, and Zhang 2016). Because better-educated, higher-earning adults are more likely to work into old age than their counterparts with less education and lower earning capacity (Johnson and Wang 2017), the growth in old-age employment significantly raises income inequality. > Health disparities near traditional retirement ages likely also raise income inequality, especially as employment increases at older ages. Poor health is a leading cause of early retirement (Bound, Stinebrickner, and Waidmann 2010; Fisher, Chaffee, and Sonnega 2016; McGarry 2004). Thus, many people with health problems are unable to extend their working lives and bolster their retirement security. Complicating it further is that higher educated higher earning adults are likely to live longer and better. That group may retire later yet still have more disability free years to spend in retirement than those in lower SES groups do. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/46 "2022-03-06T18:55:32Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Health disparities near traditional retirement ages likely also raise income inequality, especially as employment increases at older ages. Poor health is a leading cause of early retirement People in poorly-paid jobs may also be less able, on average, to adjust their jobs to accommodate older bodies. The jobs are more likely to require physical exertion to start with, and may also have less leeway in choice of hours. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/47 "2022-03-07T12:38:49Z")
My dad retired at 65, my mom retired a few years younger than that. During their earning years they had lived frugally and invested wisely, so between that, their SS income, and my dad’s pension as a federal employee, they lived well in retirement, traveling the world by air and traveling the country with a really nice fifth-wheel trailer. That lasted for about 11 years before my dad was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease and began declining in health. My mom got another five years and then developed a terminal illness, dying a couple of years later. My dad remained in assisted living for several years after she died, but recently transitioned to skilled nursing. It’s expensive as hell, but he’s got plenty of money; he’ll leave us kids with a generous inheritance. We’ll be grateful for whatever he leaves us when he’s gone, but I think we all wish that he and my mom had had more health and time in which to spend that hard-earned wealth on themselves. Having observed their experience, I don’t want to wait until 65. As a federal employee myself, I’ll be eligible to retire when I’m about 58, and I plan to do so. “Eligible to retire” means I can begin claiming my pension immediately, along with a supplement that will carry me until I’m eligible for social security at 62 (though I probably won’t begin claiming that until 65). It also means I get to keep my employer-provided health insurance, which becomes my supplemental once I sign up for Medicare. Like my parents, my wife and I have saved and invested aggressively; I’ve done the math, and I have high confidence that we will not outlive our money. My dad’s mom died young from Parkinson’s disease, so it seems there’s some family history that leaves a good chance of me getting it as well (although I think I’ve had less chemical exposure than my dad over the years). If my body follows his path, then I’ll have 18 retirement years in which to live it up instead of just 11 before my health starts to nosedive. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/48 "2022-03-07T14:01:35Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > People in poorly-paid jobs may also be less able, on average, to adjust their jobs to accommodate older bodies. The jobs are more likely to require physical exertion to start with, and may also have less leeway in choice of hours. I would like to point out that this isn’t restricted to those in poorly paid jobs. At the job I recently retired from, the entry point job\* pays $85K before overtime at the top of the payscale - not poorly paid anywhere in the US. These jobs are, however, paid less than the higher ranks - and the people in the higher ranks are the ones who work into their seventies because they have desk jobs while the entry-point jobs are more physically demanding and involve visiting people at home. The people in desk jobs presumably typically saved more for retirement because they were paid more and worked longer. \* It’s a little hard to describe - it’s not really entry-level but neither is it the sort of job that requires previous experience. Think of, for example , a police department where you can join the department as either a police officer or a deputy chief and not at any rank in between and where having worked in a support position has no official bearing on being hired as an officer. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/49 "2022-03-07T17:30:42Z")
In the same vein, nursing is generally well paid, but there’s a lot more physicality involved in the job than some people think. My sister worked in a hospital, and nearly all the nurses she knew over a certain age had back problems. It wears on you. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/50 "2022-03-07T20:56:56Z")
I think a big consideration is how long do you expect to live. In my case, both my parents died last year at ages 90 and 95, so I’m expecting to live into well into the 80s. With that in mind, I still haven’t filed for SS even after reaching 65, so that when it does come in it will be a larger amount for an anticipated long life. If you don’t think you’ll live much past 70, then claiming SS early makes some sense. I do expect to file next year as I will reach the full retirement age in March 2023. There are special rules for the year that you reach FRA and you can earn more without giving any SS back so if you hit reach FRA early in the calendar year, you’ll likely not have to pay any back. I think it’s best to pay off credit cards before retirement. When your income drops, you don’t want to still be paying on debts accrued when your cash flow was higher. It helped me to take an honest snapshot of what was coming in and where it was going out before retirement (from my past career). I decided I really couldn’t afford to totally quit so I took an offer to work for a consultant. If you don’t have the prospect of getting a high paid new career, you may want to stay where you’re at. Pulling the trigger on retirement and collecting SS is a big deal, and when the bell is rung you can’t unring it so I recommend really studying your own situation and coming up with the right answer for you, which may not be the answer you want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/51 "2022-03-07T23:01:48Z")
Many years ago, I met a woman who was a junior college teacher. She told me that her husband taught at the same junior college. He was diagnosed with something or other. Her junior college didn’t offer much in the way of health insurance and they couldn’t afford to pay the doctors or the treatment or whatever. So he died. If you run out of money and/or insurance, what happens? My brother used to work as a translator at a large hospital. Some people were illegals and if the doctor said, “Buy some Robitussin for your child’s cough,” the parent would reply that they had no money. So the hospital dispensed it and billed the government (probably for the highest dollar amount the government allowed). Any insight into all this? Why do some get no breaks and others get big breaks? [quote=“BobLibDem, post:50, topic:960519”]Pulling the trigger on retirement and collecting SS is a big deal, and when the bell is rung you can’t unring it so I recommend really studying your own situation and coming up with the right answer for you, which may not be the answer you want to hear. [/quote] I thought you could unring it. I thought I read that you could pay back what you collected etc. The reality is that if you decide after three months that you don’t want to retire, paying back that amount isn’t bad. But waiting a few years means a huge pay back, ruling it out for the vast majority of people. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/52 "2022-03-07T23:04:19Z")
They closed that loophole. Used to be you could draw it at 62, then say at 65 pay it all back and collect as if you started drawing at 65. It turns out that many were investing 3 years of SS, paying it back at 65, and pocketing the interest. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/53 "2022-03-07T23:44:20Z")
You can still withdraw your application within one [year](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/withdrawal.html#:~:text=You%20must%20repay%20all%20the,live%20with%20you%20or%20not.) - but you need the written consent of anyone receiving benefits based on your application ( such as a spouse) in addition to paying back the benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/54 "2022-03-08T00:59:56Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Complicating it further is that higher educated higher earning adults are likely to live longer and better. That group may retire later yet still have more disability free years to spend in retirement than those in lower SES groups do. I’d be suspicious of the result you quoted. I just finished my taxes, and according to my official income I’m po’ white trash. I actually have tons of money, much post tax so I can spend it without it showing up as income. I had a friend who taught a few days a week after she retired. Her husband wished that she took time off to do things. She thought she had plenty of time, being healthy. She got cancer and was dead in six weeks. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/55 "2022-03-08T01:26:53Z")
Not quite sure which part you are doubting but in any case this paper may allay the suspicions. > **[R44846.pdf](https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R44846.pdf)** > > 1353.36 KB > [@](#): > > … Among men born in 1960, those in the top income quintile could expect to live 12.7 years longer at age 50 than men in the bottom income quintile. This NAS study finds similar patterns for women: the life expectancy gap at age 50 between the bottom and top income quintiles of women expanded from 3.9 years for the 1930 birth cohort to 13.6 years for the 1960 birth cohort. > Gains in life expectancy are generally heralded as good news by lawmakers and others, signifying improved well-being in the population. Yet widening differentials in life expectancy are more troubling. Congress may be interested in recent research on this topic for many reasons, including the implications for Social Security benefits as well as Social Security reform proposals. > Social Security provides monthly benefits to retired and disabled workers and their dependents, and to dependents of deceased workers. Akey goal of the Social Security program is redistribution of income from the high earner to the low earner by way of a progressive benefit formula. Widening gaps in life expectancies by SES pose a challenge to meeting this goal. When Social Security benefits are measured on a lifetime basis, low earners, who show little to no gains in life expectancy over time, are projected to receive increasingly lower benefits than those with high earnings. … Also - > **[US-2050-Socioeconomic-Disparities-in-Disabled-and-Disability-Free-Life-Expectancy.pdf](https://www.pgpf.org/sites/default/files/US-2050-Socioeconomic-Disparities-in-Disabled-and-Disability-Free-Life-Expectancy.pdf)** > > 653.77 KB > [@](#): > > The analyses reveal that Social Security and Medicare’s insurance functions are especially profound for those in the lower parts of the earnings and education distributions. Those with less education and lower earnings spend fewer years receiving benefits, and far fewer of the receipt years are disability- free. A greater share of their total benefits are paid during spells of severe disability, when their Medicare spending is relatively high. For those with more education and higher earnings, in contrast, needs are less intensive and spread over a longer—and growing—period, though Medicare benefits are still concentrated in periods of significant disability and health needs. Our findings thus underscore the two programs’ insurance aspects. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/56 "2022-03-08T18:14:44Z")
I wasn’t disputing that at all. I’m well aware of that disparity. My point was that those retiring early with supposedly low incomes might actually have a lot of wealth. That’s during normal times - recently older people who were laid off might give up getting another job and be forcibly retired without the wealth someone who voluntarily retires has. It is possible to control your income to stay in a lower tax bracket. You can put IRA withdrawals into Roths which means you get hit for tax on withdrawals but not for later growth. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/57 "2022-03-08T18:26:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > It is possible to control your income to stay in a lower tax bracket. You can put IRA withdrawals into Roths which means you get hit for tax on withdrawals but not for later growth. This is just one technique and there are others. I stuffed the max into a 401k for thirty years and have owned a home for nearly as long. It’s all about income control for me to keep free health insurance premiums and to avoid taxes. This is all very typical for the middle aged professional. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/58 "2022-03-08T18:58:33Z")
Noted that wealth quintile would likely be more relevant than income quintile as the SES proxy. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/59 "2022-03-09T07:13:34Z")
My point exactly. But I don’t see a lot of these studies measuring wealth - mostly the ones worrying about having enough to retire on. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519/60 "2022-03-09T18:46:22Z")
Wealth data is harder to pin down. Lifetime income levels are easier to get reasonable proxies for. Income equality is not exactly the same as wealth inequality, true, probably the best data they have got for policy analysis. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/retirement-age-discussion/960519.md?page=4)