# Return address same as deliver to address - illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219 "2001-11-30T23:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/1 "2001-11-30T23:47:34Z")
I was under the impression that putting the “deliver to” address in the “return address” are was illegal. The idea behind doing this would be to mail a letter without postage. Since the return address is the same as the deliver to address, ths post office would send the letter back to “the sender” postage free. My car insurance company sends me an envelope for my payment and their address is pre-printed on the envelope and my payment coupon has the same address so that when I put in the envelope, it shows out of the window on the front. I haven’t tried to mail it without postage, but I wonder how they can get away with this. BTW, I put my return address label on the back of the envelope just to be safe. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/2 "2001-12-01T00:01:51Z")
**Mr. Blue Sky** , I have always wondered if this would work too. I once had a letter sent to me that had some, but not enough postage. The USPS left a pick-up note in my mailbox. I had to go to the post-office and pay the remaining 17 cents in order to pick up the letter. My WAG is that they might do the same in this case. Of course, they take mail fraud pretty seriously and if they suspected that you were trying to send mail without paying for it, they might take a different course of action. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/3 "2001-12-01T00:06:09Z")
From [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=85090) thread: It violates Section 1725 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. [http://www.chiprowe.com/articles/mail.html](http://www.chiprowe.com/articles/mail.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/4 "2001-12-01T00:12:09Z")
I noted that the thread mentioned above was locked. I AM NOT ENCOURAGING MAIL FRAUD!! I KNOW it’s illegal, just wanna know how the insurance company can send me envelopes printed like that. ---
**Author:** ![pesch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pesch/32/4925_2.png) [@pesch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pesch)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/5 "2001-12-01T00:22:21Z")
I do this all the time when sending out manuscripts, but no one’s ever called me on it. Not because my stories get accepted, but because I put the correct postage on it. You know you’re a crappy writer when even the post office rejects your submissions. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/6 "2001-12-01T02:36:45Z")
My credit card company does this BUT in the upper left hand corner it says Post Office Will Not Deliver Without Postage. Note it doesn’t say how much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![P.W.Doodle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f14d63/32.png) [@P.W.Doodle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/P.W.Doodle)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/7 "2001-12-01T03:34:33Z")
I asked the “nice man” at the post office about this on Thursday. My concern wasn’t steaming from the thought of cheating on postage, but from the _terrorism_ standpoint. [sub]Not that a terrorist would put their actual return address on their anthrax laced letter…but, anyway[/sub] Many businesses that send return envelopes do this… The “nice man” said not to worry about it. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/8 "2001-12-01T07:21:39Z")
I’ve done this several times, but always with the correct postage. For example, I’ve sent SASE’s to athletes looking for autographs. I’ve done the same thing when I mailed things from school to my family at home. It feels silly putting the same address twice on the envelope. But I always put the stamp on anyway. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/9 "2001-12-01T15:37:52Z")
I, too, wondered about this thing and I simply did an experiement. I sent unstamped mail to non-existent addresses and then put the actual, intended addresses (including my own address) into the return address space. All were delivered, all right, to the location of the return address, usually with the p.o. stamp saying something like, “addressee unknown.” hee hee. I’m going to turn myself in to the postal authorities as soon as the police are done with me for removing the tag from a piece of furniture. ---
**Author:** ![MannyL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MannyL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MannyL)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/10 "2001-12-01T18:41:37Z")
I think the idea is, if your postage falls off it will still be delivered to them on time, and they will pay for the missing postage ---
**Author:** ![Mysticete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Mysticete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mysticete)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/11 "2002-11-21T00:48:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*My credit card company does this BUT in the upper left hand corner it says Post Office Will Not Deliver Without Postage. Note it doesn’t say how much. 🙂 \*\* Having worked for the US Postal System, I know this one. The answer is 1 cent. The letter will arrive 36 cents postage due. Also, in the case of insurance companies, the fee for arriving via “return address”, if that happens (which is optional with the first post office to pick up the letter), is the same as for business reply mail. If they have an open account with money in it, then the postage due is taken from that. If not, then a regular postage due notice is given. Big companies always pay, so the notice is a semi-bluff. “Semi-” because although the USPS is under no obligation to deliver the letter, they almost always do because the utility will pay. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/12 "2002-11-21T00:58:53Z")
I would think that the insurance company’s address in the return corner would be to insure (no pun intended) that the letter would get to them (albeit **with** proper postage) even if you **didn’t** have the correct address showing through the window, i.e., if you put the card in the envelope backward, and the window showed blank. IMHO ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/13 "2002-11-21T03:08:26Z")
I love these threads. It was my [first post here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=1245). ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/14 "2002-11-21T03:36:05Z")
It does not appear to be illegal to mail an envelope with the return address the same as the deliver to address (like the envelopes my gas company always includes with the bill), if you include proper postage on the envelope. If you’re doing this and deliberately _not_ including proper postage on the envelope, then you are violating [18 U.S.C. 1725](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1725.html): > [@](#): > > Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such as statements of accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter, on which no postage has been paid, in any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to avoid payment of lawful postage thereon, shall for each such offense be fined under this title It doesn’t say what the fine is, but it’s probably rather more than 37 cents. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/15 "2002-11-21T03:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\* > It doesn’t say what the fine is, but it’s probably rather more than 37 cents. \*\* It would seem that the fine is no more than a mere [$5,000](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/3571.html) unless someone dies. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/16 "2002-11-21T07:11:38Z")
How on earth did this thread get resurrected? I did a double take seeing that old post of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Mysticete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@Mysticete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mysticete)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2002, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/17 "2002-11-21T20:27:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElwoodCuse \* > \*\*How on earth did this thread get resurrected? I did a double take seeing that old post of mine. \*\* It looks from the dates that I brought this to the top, but I’m not sure how I got here, since I don’t normally go past the first forum page, and don’t search. Perhaps there was a link somewhere else that sent me here? ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2002, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/18 "2002-11-22T01:50:16Z")
Draft registration cards have the same Selective Service address as the deliver to and return address. So I tried to be a badass and send mine without postage. Damn post office people cleverly read the registration information on the other side and sent it back. Talk about adding insult to injury, making me pay to be cannon fodder… :mad: ---
**Author:** ![infoseekrs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9fc348/32.png) [@infoseekrs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infoseekrs)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/19 "2013-03-06T05:50:22Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > I would think that the insurance company’s address in the return corner would be to insure (no pun intended) that the letter would get to them (albeit **with** proper postage) even if you **didn’t** have the correct address showing through the window, i.e., if you put the card in the envelope backward, and the window showed blank. > > IMHO The insurance co. would ENSURE that the letter would get to them, although they could INSURE the mail through a fee paid to the USPS. I ASSURE you this is the case. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Pai325](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Pai325](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pai325)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2013, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219/20 "2013-03-06T06:12:31Z")
I do this sometimes, too, in case something happens to the address. Usually I do it if I’m on vacation sending myself something I bought. When I was a kid I remember hearing about sending letters without postage by addressing the envelope so that the return address is where you really want it to go (and it doesn’t have to be the same as the one on the front of the envelope), but since I’m in my sixties I figure the post office has figured it out by now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-address-same-as-deliver-to-address-illegal/96219.md?page=2)