# Return of "Deflategate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401 "2015-05-06T17:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/261 "2015-05-19T20:48:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > … in return Goodell is gone in the near future. You keep saying this. 1. What does “The near future” mean? 2. What’s your confidence in this prediction? If you’d state your meaning and certainty, people could fairly ask to make a wager on it. It is certain he’s gone in a year? 75% likely he’s gone in 3? Three years seems a bit long for “the near future” but in fairness that would still mean he was fired during the contract he’s on now (it runs out in 2019) which certainly constitutes an early exit. So what’re we talking? ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/262 "2015-05-19T21:11:23Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > What waffling? He punished them as he saw fit, and now they’ve quit the fighting over it. There was no waffling. Unless you’re in ElvisL!ves fantasyland, that is. And, if that is the case, I suggest you run. Again, that’s his job. His job is to protect the shield, gauge public opinion and try to balance the opinions of 32 different owners. I really don’t think you get to yell at him for doing his job. The waffling was referring to back-channel conversations assuming he was going to reduce the penalty. I’ll say in this case, good for Roger. He stuck to his guns. In terms of gauging public opinion, I guess he just sucks at it. He tried to keep the Ray Rice thing under the rug, just like he did with Spygate way back in 07. Honestly, the Ray Rice situation alone is enough to call Goodell an idiot. I don’t know if he’s involved with this 2 point conversion change nonsense, but that’s solving a problem that doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/263 "2015-05-19T21:25:53Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > In terms of gauging public opinion, I guess he just sucks at it. He tried to keep the Ray Rice thing under the rug, just like he did with Spygate way back in 07. Honestly, the Ray Rice situation alone is enough to call Goodell an idiot. Yes, he fucked up the Ray Rice thing. That’s a huge black check mark on his tenure. But considering he got the CBA done, that he’s apparently handled the CTA lawsuits, and the money that keeps pouring in, I think he cannot fairly be called dumb. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/264 "2015-05-19T21:58:36Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > In terms of gauging public opinion, I guess he just sucks at it. He tried to keep the Ray Rice thing under the rug, just like he did with Spygate way back in 07. Honestly, the Ray Rice situation alone is enough to call Goodell an idiot. What about Spygate did he try to “keep under the rug”? ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/265 "2015-05-19T23:07:03Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I don’t know if he’s involved with this 2 point conversion change nonsense, but that’s solving a problem that doesn’t exist. I am with you on this one. Peter King is trotting out the 99.5% success rate in the past 5 or 10 years. As if it was dramatically less in the 90s or something. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/266 "2015-05-20T01:02:18Z")
I’m no fan of Goodell, but at this point I’m kinda looting for a long, Pats-hating reign. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/267 "2015-05-20T02:00:19Z")
I’m going to take the controversial stance that you shouldn’t be looting for anything. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/268 "2015-05-20T05:35:06Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > What about Spygate did he try to “keep under the rug”? Well, yes and no. Goodell supposedly destroyed the tapes. So, he penalized the organization, then got rid of the evidence that the league said proved their guilt. You could say he tried to sweep it under the rug in that those tapes will never be made public, and no one will ever be able to measure what actual advantage the Patriots were getting from those tapes. I find it hard to believe that they were not getting value out of those tapes. I have no idea what was on them, but why destroy them? Because once they were destroyed, no one can ask to look at them again. The evidence can never be debated, and it did largely go away. It wasn’t really revisited until deflatriot-gate, when it was used in the decision to hammer the organization harder. There is, the NFL office’s opinion, evidence that this culture of cheating is fostered by the Patriots themselves, and specifically under Belichick and Kraft. The Patriots weren’t happy about losing a 1st round pick from spygate, but they accepted that ruling also. Maybe because they knew the truth, and realized that fighting it was pointless. I find it laughable/pathological that now a certain apologist thinks the agreement by Kraft not to continue his pathetic lawsuit is an indication that Goodell is gone. Can’t tell anyone when yet. Just the “near future”. What a joke. Is Goodell going to die in office? No, he’s not a pope. So we all know he’s going to “go” eventually. “Near future”? That sounds soon! Is it 3 months? 6? A year? Or when his contract runs out? If Goodell gets hit by a bus, I am pretty sure one person in this thread would deem that proof that he was right, and the owners hired the bus driver. :rolleyes: Guess what? Kraft accepted the ruling, so they will lose the draft picks and the money. Organization = guilty. I seriously doubt that Brady’s appeal, if it actually goes forward, will remove his suspension. It _may_ reduce it, but since Kraft dropped his lawsuit, it strengthens Goodell’s position. They are going to accept an organizational punishment as is, but the NFL is going to remove the suspension from the player whose actions caused all of this in the first place? Doubtful… Even if they reduce his suspension a game or two, it doesn’t matter. Brady won’t get this expunged from his record. It will always be a part of him and his legacy. Great QB… and a cheat. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/269 "2015-05-20T13:26:42Z")
Destroying the tapes was probably a blunder; I don’t know that he ever precisely explained his reasoning, but it was probably something along the lines of “illegally obtained tapes that could yield a competitive advantage probably shouldn’t be available for review.” The thing is, before they were destroyed, they were played on a loop for the media. Also, Jay Glazer of Fox apparently has a copy (that leak may be one of the reasons they were destroyed too). If there were anything on there beyond the other teams’ sidelines, we’d probably know about it by now. The other thing that I think people tend to overlook is that all those tapes were voluntarily turned over by the Patriots (pseudo-voluntarily at least; the league demanded them, but the team is the one who decided what to send. It’s not like they conducted a raid.). It stretches credibility that the Patriots would have sent stuff that was any more incriminating than what they were already accused of. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/270 "2015-05-20T14:01:36Z")
[Dan Le Batard](http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/roger-goodell-nfl-credibility-integrity-issues/story?id=31172016&singlePage=true) is refreshingly even-handed in his fuck-'em-all approach. Yes, the writer who sold his baseball Hall of Fame ballot is lecturing Goodell on morality. > [@](#): > > That his random punishment system, making up the rules as he goes, keeps negative stories in the news cycle longer than normal as we debate and await over-punishment is not great for that image and integrity he’s trying so zealously to protect. > … > It’s like seeing the courtroom judge banging a gavel while wearing an orange jumpsuit and shackles. Better to just imagine this entire Patriots “scandal” as a professional wrestling match. Brady vs. Goodell. The Golden Boy vs. The Overpunisher. A fight for the ages, a fight for INTEGRITY! > > The media and fans howl with bloodlust outside the ring, making so much noise, screaming “Liar!” and “Cheater!” The script’s storyline is so exciting, sports being soap opera for males, that you hardly notice that the fight for integrity is all kinds of fake. And, oh yeah, nobody really gets too harmed here, either, and the arena always remains full. > … > Goodell somehow emerged from a Rice mess that caused the league all manner of shame to basically announce that he’d appointed himself societal leader on domestic abuse – from calls for his resignation to more power to punish, in other words. He went from randomly making up a two-game penalty for Rice to randomly making up a 10-game penalty for Greg Hardy that the players’ union has to appeal because, well, he’s totally making it up as he goes along. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/271 "2015-05-20T14:31:17Z")
Making it up as he goes along? Sounds like Goodall and you have something in common. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/272 "2015-05-20T14:46:57Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Making it up as he goes along? Sounds like Goodall and you have something in common. Hey! Remember that Ray Rice thing? When Goodell really screwed up!!! Remember that!!! Yeah, that means the Patriots didn’t do anything wrong!!! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/273 "2015-05-20T14:49:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You keep saying this. > > 1. What does “The near future” mean? No later than the end of his current contract. The likeliest scenario is nonrenewal, not actual firing. > [@](#): > > 1. What’s your confidence in this prediction? It’s a strong suspicion, not the result of analysis, _obviously_. :dubious: > [@](#): > > If you’d state your meaning and certainty, people could fairly ask to make a wager on it. Anybody who wants to both define numbers and wager on them is welcome. If you’re trying to ban opinion from this forum, then please so state. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/274 "2015-05-20T14:51:20Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > I am with you on this one. Peter King is trotting out the 99.5% success rate in the past 5 or 10 years. As if it was dramatically less in the 90s or something. There’s still a 91% rate on 32 yarders, still a chip shot. Even if kickers don’t get better at that distance, it still means an actual effect on the score once every 3 or 4 games or so, and an actual effect on the win/loss rarely enough that it doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/275 "2015-05-20T14:54:13Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s hard to pull off the “we” shit when absolutely nobody agrees with you. I mean, even people potentially sympathetic to your orientation on the matter explicitly distance themselves from you. > > When you’re standing somewhere by yourself talking about what “we” believe, it just looks a little crazy. So, _no_ facts? Just even \*more \*eighth-grade invective? :rolleyes: Pity. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/276 "2015-05-20T15:04:53Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No later than the end of his current contract. The likeliest scenario is nonrenewal, not actual firing. That’s in 2018. So you’re positing that Kraft agreed to not appeal the team’s punishment, not because its a waste of time or a bad business decision, but instead in order to wait 4 fucking years and $300 million dollars to get someone’s contract not renewed? I just love it. Your posts are gifts that just keep giving. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/277 "2015-05-20T15:16:28Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > So you’re positing that Kraft agreed to not appeal the team’s punishment, not because its a waste of time or a bad business decision, but instead in order to wait 4 fucking years and $300 million dollars to get someone’s contract not renewed? No. But you do have quite an imagination. > [@](#): > > I just love it. Your posts are gifts that just keep giving. The best part is that you don’t even need them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/278 "2015-05-20T15:26:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Dan Le Batard](http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/roger-goodell-nfl-credibility-integrity-issues/story?id=31172016&singlePage=true) is refreshingly even-handed in his fuck-'em-all approach. Yes, the writer who sold his baseball Hall of Fame ballot is lecturing Goodell on morality. Well, I’ll say this for LeBatard: the fans he allowed to vote for the Hall of Fame made perfectly respectable choices. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/279 "2015-05-20T15:35:26Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So, _no_ facts? Just even \*more \*eighth-grade invective? :rolleyes: > > Pity. I’ve responded comprehensively and copiously with facts all throughout the discussion of deflategate. I’ve done so in order to counter endless flights of fantasy offered by zealots (“maybe they inflated the balls in a sauna,” “Anderson never gauged the balls before the game,” “only one ball was below the limit,” “Goodell is going to back down.”) I’ve provided so many fact-based challenges that I’ve been called obsessive on this topic. In contrast, you’ve provided a steady stream of wishes and fantasies, nonsense and efforts at distraction. You’ve been described as being akin to Baghdad Bob on this subject. #patsterisk ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/280 "2015-05-20T15:42:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No. But you do have quite an imagination. Well, I asked you before for your thoughts on what actually happened, and you ignored it. Now you post: “IOW in return Goodell is gone in the near future.” and I’m wrong to conclude that it meant that Goodell would be gone if Kraft gave up the fight? I get that the facts and objective analysis isn’t even close to your strong suit, but how about you actually say what you mean instead of playing games? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=15)