# Return of "Deflategate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401 "2015-05-06T17:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/361 "2015-07-30T18:36:51Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And here’s your pat on the head. 😉 You couldn’t have proven my point any better. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/362 "2015-07-30T21:16:48Z")
I’m honestly curious as to what the alternative explanation is, too. And I don’t hate the Patriots. Actually, I’m a fan of Tom Brady. Not only is there no alternative explanation, but there isn’t even a rational explanation as to why this is happening if there WASN’T cheating going on. Why on earth would Roger Goodale, and the NFL apparatus of state that surrounds him, take it upon himself to play some giant scam on the New England Patriots and Tom Brady? ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/363 "2015-07-30T22:10:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Roger Goodale The terrifying combination of Roger Goodell and Ralph Goodale? I guess the alternative explanation for what the league is doing is that the they got into this investigation and now can’t drop it without looking like they’re caving to the Patriots or giving them special treatment. The alternative explanation as far as the issue itself is that the balls were never deflated, and that the measured drop in pressure at halftime was due to the temperature change and the fact that a different gauge was used in the measurements. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/364 "2015-07-31T00:20:52Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > The terrifying combination of Roger Goodell and Ralph Goodale? > > I guess the alternative explanation for what the league is doing is that the they got into this investigation and now can’t drop it without looking like they’re caving to the Patriots or giving them special treatment. > > The alternative explanation as far as the issue itself is that the balls were never deflated, and that the measured drop in pressure at halftime was due to the temperature change and the fact that a different gauge was used in the measurements. The sad thing is that this alternative explanation is undone by the evidence. It is onoy going to be believed by those who will also buy the “deflator” was a weight-loss guy, and those people would apparently believe literally anything. I suppose the question is whether there’s any _viable_ alternative explanation. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/365 "2015-07-31T01:24:19Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > I guess the alternative explanation for what the league is doing is that the they got into this investigation and now can’t drop it without looking like they’re caving to the Patriots or giving them special treatment. Much like a disturbing number of posters here. A broader issue is that league has had no real controls in place on the balls, especially not since agreeing to Brady’s and Manning’s proposals a few years ago (that’s where “kickers’ balls” arose, too), that there were issues found everywhere they looked, and chose one team and one player to nail to cover up their own laxness - on the sole basis of the Colts’ pregame whining. > [@](#): > > The alternative explanation as far as the issue itself is that the balls were never deflated, and that the measured drop in pressure at halftime was due to the temperature change and the fact that a different gauge was used in the measurements. And that’s what the evidence \*does \*say, among other things. We’ve been over that here if you want to go back and look. There are numerous more detailed summaries if you search for “Wells report debunked” or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/366 "2015-07-31T01:54:48Z")
You could also search on “Patriots fans say” or “things Patriots fans wish were true” if you’re into deflation denialism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/367 "2015-07-31T02:00:57Z")
Remind me, which team is yours - Steelers or Jets? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/368 "2015-07-31T02:55:23Z")
Oh shit! Was it my support for another team that made Tom Brady destroy his cell phone? Sorry about that! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/369 "2015-07-31T11:43:46Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Oh shit! Was it my support for another team that made Tom Brady destroy his cell phone? Sorry about that! No, he regularly destroys them. Well, except for the one before the one he most recently destroyed. Which I guess isn’t regularly… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/370 "2015-07-31T12:40:41Z")
It must have been wonderful, that time the Jets got to the Super Bowl. Have you ever asked your grandfather what it was like? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/371 "2015-07-31T13:16:29Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > No, he regularly destroys them. > > Well, except for the one before the one he most recently destroyed. > > Which I guess isn’t regularly… Or the one before that one. This guy - hell the whole organization - is like Nathan Thurm and Tommy Flanagan rolled into one. Obviously guilty, obviously lying about everything, coming up with ridiculous and risible excuses, but totally believed by their fans. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/372 "2015-07-31T13:26:10Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A broader issue is that league has had no real controls in place on the balls, especially not since agreeing to Brady’s and Manning’s proposals a few years ago (that’s where “kickers’ balls” arose, too), that there were issues found everywhere they looked, and chose one team and one player to nail to cover up their own laxness - on the sole basis of the Colts’ pregame whining. Irrespective of whatever you think of anything else in this debate, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the NFL’s cavalier attitude towards letting games be played with different kinds of footballs helped create this shitstorm. It’s still likely Tom Brady and his bobos cheated, but allowing this to even be possible was just immensely idiotic. There is no particularly compelling reason why the NFL should not adopt the strikingly simple and fair policy that footballs are footballs and all the footballs would be the same. “Kicker’s balls”? I can only imagine what Major League Baseball’s answer would be if Madison Bumgarner, Clayton Kershaw and David Price went to them and said “we want to use a different kind of baseball when we pitch.” The laughter from MLB HQ in New York would be audible as far away as Los Angeles. Or if Lebron James said he wanted a particular set of basketballs - controlled by Cavaliers employees - provided to him whenever he was shooting free throws. They’d send him for a psychological evaluation. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/373 "2015-07-31T13:41:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’m honestly curious as to what the alternative explanation is, too. And I don’t hate the Patriots. Actually, I’m a fan of Tom Brady. > > Not only is there no alternative explanation, but there isn’t even a rational explanation as to why this is happening if there WASN’T cheating going on. Why on earth would Roger Goodale, and the NFL apparatus of state that surrounds him, take it upon himself to play some giant scam on the New England Patriots and Tom Brady? [Here’s one explanation, from a non-New England news source (The Washington Post).](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/374 "2015-07-31T14:16:43Z")
Lawyer blog about deflate gate: > **[Deflategate Legal Questions](https://www.stradleylaw.com/blog/deflategate-legal-questions/)** > > Stephanie Stradley (@StephStradley) is a Houston-based lawyer and writer. In this post, she answers a variety of NFL fans' Deflategate legal questions. I liked her point contrasting bad PR vs legally bad. On the phone issue: > [@](#): > > Perhaps from a PR perspective. Looks like more of a “bright shiny object” distraction or sort of a “skunk in the jury box” of public opinion. > > It’s odd that the NFL is basing any of their disciplinary ruling on this given that at the time of the Wells Report, Ted Wells said he never was interested in the physical phone. And that he was willing to take Brady and Yee’s word about whether there were responsive documents contained in it. > > As far as bright shiny object topics go, it is worth noting that Roger Goodell did not provide his private phone in the Mueller investigation. [pg 7, pg 47] I also liked her point about how people in general [e.g., Kraft during Bountygate, anti-patriots now] are insensitive to injustice when it happens to others, but realize the system is fucked when it happens to then. The article is long, but she’s a lawyer and not a patriots fan. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/375 "2015-07-31T14:26:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > It’s still likely Tom Brady and his bobos cheated If that’s what you want to call it. But, since the evidence is that pressure problems showed up everywhere they were looked for, including with the Colts’ balls, it is statistically “more probable than not” that many or all teams did the same thing. That’s a league rules and execution issue, and should have been handled as such. But now, Goodell has made it impossible for himself to acknowledge that, and so it won’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/376 "2015-07-31T14:37:52Z")
Putting aside the actual case at hand here (and can we all agree that everyone involved in this situation deserves a good 10 minute dope slapping?) what is more interesting to me is how things are lining up between the NFLPA and the League. For years the NFL has been handing down punishments in a seemingly random manner. Those punishments are then often reduced on appeal or in court. This deflate scandal seems to fulfill the agendas of both sides in the argument. For the NFL, they get the opportunity to crack down on “white collar crime” as opposed to the usual drug and violence issues that pop up. They also get the opportunity to punish a popular player (haters aside, everyone who follows the game knows Tom Brady ). And also punish the Patriots who are disliked by many around the league both for their success, and the belief they are always getting away with something. See folks, we treat everyone the same. No crime goes unpunished. The NFLPA, on the other hand, gets a white collar case with a marquee player to go to court with to argue the right of the league to hand down punishments beyond what is strictly spelled out in the CBA, and, more importantly, the right of the Commissioner to both hand out a punishment and hear the appeal. Much easier to make a public stand behind a guy accused of deflating footballs, than a guy who hit his kid with a belt. And also a great piece for the union to take to other players and say, “if the League can do this to Tom Brady, what are they going to do to you, Mr. unknown backup linebacker?” Between this, and concussions, and the growing billions at stake it will make for a very interesting negotiation when the next CBA comes up in 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/377 "2015-07-31T14:38:47Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > [Here’s one explanation, from a non-New England news source (The Washington Post).](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html) Holy shit! That’s such an aggregious misrepresentation of what Wells really said that I cannot believe it was published! For example, here’s what Sally Jenkins wrote: [Quote=Sally Jenkins] Wells never asked for Tom Brady’s cellphone and didn’t require it. “Keep the phone,” Wells told Brady and his agent. He insisted his investigation was thorough without it. “I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report,” he said. Those were his exact words. So were these, after interrogating Brady for more than five hours: “Totally cooperative,” Wells said of Brady’s testimony. [/quote] Here’s what Wells said in reality: > [@](#): > > Wells: At the same time, he refused to permit us to review electronic data from his telephone or other instruments. Most of the key evidence, as in most cases, come from people’s cell phones and he refused to let us review the phone and I want to be crystal clear. I told Mr. Brady and his agent I did not, I was willing not to take possession of the phone. I said I don’t want to see any private information, I said you keep the phone. You the agent, Mr. Yee, you can look at the phone. You give me documents that are responsive and I will take your word that you have given me what’s responsive. And they still refused. > [@](#): > > (question) Does the lack of cooperation from Brady to turn over the texts, the emails and then the lack of cooperation from the Patriots to produce McNally for a follow up, what kind of holes can that create in your report? > > Wells:I don’t think it undermines in any way the conclusions of the report. I do believe that if I had had access to Brady’s electronic messages and if I had received all of the messages that it might have yielded additional insights into what happened and I think that would have been good for everybody regardless of what it showed. and I think it’s disappointing that they would say on one hand they are cooperating and yet refuse to give me access to the electronic data. Wells transcript here: [https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/12/full-transcript-ted-wells-conference-call-deflategate-report/sweK5ADLDyhQjnaVBmJRtM/story.html](https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/12/full-transcript-ted-wells-conference-call-deflategate-report/sweK5ADLDyhQjnaVBmJRtM/story.html) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/378 "2015-07-31T14:38:49Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > [Here’s one explanation, from a non-New England news source (The Washington Post).](http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/the-nfls-basic-due-process-is-the-real-issue-in-the-deflategate-controversy/2015/07/30/ebda3b02-3666-11e5-9d0f-7865a67390ee_story.html) That and any other Sally Jenkins column about Goodell’s conduct in this matter are very worth reading. But [this is a better analysis](https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/On-the-Wells-report.pdf) of the physics and statistics involved. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/379 "2015-07-31T14:47:17Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Obviously guilty, obviously lying about everything, coming up with ridiculous and risible excuses, but totally believed by their fans. Aw, do \*you \*want a pat on the head _too_, you little scamp? Okay, here it is (pat pat). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/380 "2015-07-31T15:02:18Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That and any other Sally Jenkins column about Goodell’s conduct in this matter are very worth reading. > > But [this is a better analysis](https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/On-the-Wells-report.pdf) of the physics and statistics involved. As I demonstrated above, Jenkins’ piece is a complete distortion of what Wells actually said. Do you have anything that isn’t completely deceitful? Also, if facts are on your side, why do you and yours keep choosing to run with the distortions and lies? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=20)