# Return of "Deflategate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401 "2015-05-06T17:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/501 "2015-09-04T14:04:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So really all that matters here is the money. If this results in the NFL not making as much money, they’ll get rid of him. If Goodell and his functionaries continue to haul in TV and merchandising money, he’s got a pretty good shot at keeping his job. True enough, but if the owners think (quite reasonably) that they can keep the money flowing no matter whose names are on the org chart, then it’s a different decision for them. It’s personal then. It then becomes about keeping an employee who’s been an embarrassment and an all-around PITA vs. the cost of terminating him and getting some other flunky instead, one who can do the job at least as well but without the bullshit. That’s Jenkins’ point and I agree with her - his _one job_ is not to be an embarrassment and a PITA, and he’s failed. Meanwhile, his former most powerful supporter among the owners is now his most powerful enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/502 "2015-09-04T14:08:30Z")
And that’s another reason the ruling is surprising to me. You’re opening the floodgates for every disciplined player to take the NFL to court. And they’ve been winning, so there’s no reason not to legally fight any punishment Goodell doles out. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/503 "2015-09-04T14:50:42Z")
The judge has no concern if this opens the floodgates for other players to take the NFL to court. He is only ruling on this particular case. And if the NFL continues to hand out player punishments without proper due process, and in amounts that grossly exceed the penalties that are written in their own rule books, then they will lose in court again. Therefore it behooves the NFL to reform how they punish their players. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/504 "2015-09-04T14:53:18Z")
I think this was all devised by Bob Kraft-he got billions of free advertising for his team. I also think that there is a new (contrived) story to keep the Patriots/Brady in the public eye…Brady and Bundchen may be divorcing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/505 "2015-09-04T14:56:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And yes, there’s a racial aspect to this, you’d better believe it. Golden boy QB gets away with cheating but Michael Vick gets a huge suspension for something the league didn’t have a rule against? Racist! Go to court! Is that fair? Maybe not, but it’s not about fairness, it’s about impression. [Denver’s T.J. Ward](http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_28755919/broncos-safety-t-j-ward-victim-latest-nfl) has a beef about that, or at least about being a whipping boy for Goodell in the wake of his latest beatdown. A suspension for throwing a beer mug in a bar over a year ago. The columnist’s own tone is less than adult, too, but amusing anyway. You may be overstating the racial aspect, considering that about two-thirds of the league’s players are black. You could argue that they’re underrepresented among the Golden Boys, but any data would be subjective. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/506 "2015-09-04T15:06:22Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > True enough, but if the owners think (quite reasonably) that they can keep the money flowing no matter whose names are on the org chart, then it’s a different decision for them. It’s personal then. That’s true. I have no expectation they’d force him out before his contract is up, though. That’d cost. I am sure many competent executives will apply for job. > [@](#): > > You may be overstating the racial aspect, considering that about two-thirds of the league’s players are black. You could argue that they’re underrepresented among the Golden Boys, but any data would be subjective… Well of course. Race is a subjective matter, after all, but as a white guy - which I am, and am guessing you are - it is difficult to understand, subjectively, what it’s like to be a black man. It’s a life of constant, neverending little insults and putdowns and moments of fear and injustices, mostly tiny but some huge. One never knows what could suddenly blow up in the league’s face; you never know which straw might break a camel’s back. Will it be this one? Likely not but this shit adds up. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/507 "2015-09-04T15:14:49Z")
As I said earlier, it was pretty obvious early on that Judge Berman didn’t think the NFL had much of a case. Once that became apparent, Goodell SHOULD have met with Brady and hammered out some kind of agreement that reduced or eliminated the suspension. Goodell should have seen this coming (almost everyone else did). It speaks badly of him that he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/508 "2015-09-04T15:15:49Z")
Yes, I’m white, and I do try to understand what that means as part of trying to help get us all past it. The social environment of professional sports is something different than out in the real world, though, race notwithstanding. Top black athletes may be more strongly influenced in their attitudes by living in the world of privilege, and nonapplicability of the ordinary rules of society, that comes with being a top athlete, than by race. So I think it might be more helpful to try to understand NFL players’ views in the context of the aristocracy of sport than of color. > [@astorian](#): > > Goodell SHOULD have met with Brady and hammered out some kind of agreement that reduced or eliminated the suspension. Rumors from “sources” (yes, I know) had Brady willing to pay the same $50K fine as Favre for “noncooperation with the investigation” to get it over with, but would never agree to something that declared him a cheater. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/509 "2015-09-04T15:32:24Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I have no expectation they’d force him out before his contract is up, though. That’d cost. It runs through [March 2019](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/25/roger-goodell-gets-five-year-contract-extension-through-2019/), ftr. Nothing in public AFAIK about termination clauses. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2015, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/510 "2015-09-04T20:53:32Z")
A partial, and obvious, step that avoids termination costs would be to strip him of his discipline authority, the main cause of his embarrassing/PITA etc. conduct. [And looky here.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/09/04/nfl-owners-to-discuss-changing-roger-goodells-role-in-disciplinary-process/?tid=pm_sports_pop_b) “NFL owners to discuss changing Roger Goodell’s role in disciplinary process” Multiple owners quoted. The NFLPA president says no new CBA without it, too. ---
**Author:** ![RadicalPi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/radicalpi/32/9806_2.png) [@RadicalPi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadicalPi)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/511 "2016-04-25T16:25:04Z")
Tom Brady’s suspension has been reinstated by a federal appeals court. > **[NFL wins 'Deflategate' appeal; Tom Brady's suspension reinstated | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/25/us/nfl-wins-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension/index.html)** > > A federal appeals court rules in favor of the NFL in "Deflategate," reinstating New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady's original four-game suspension. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/512 "2016-04-25T16:49:28Z")
> [@RadicalPi](#): > > Tom Brady’s suspension has been reinstated by a federal appeals court. > [http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/25/us/nfl-wins-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/25/us/nfl-wins-deflategate-appeal-tom-brady-suspension/index.html) Next step would be the Supreme Court, and I’d be real surprised if they lowered themselves to the level of reviewing something in a friggen game. Tom, you cheated, now you pay. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/513 "2016-04-25T19:50:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You _don’t_ think this is going to court immediately? And you think this would be the first NFL win in court in many years? Why? > > … > > It’s all there on your permanent record Just so you know, m’kay? Heh. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > As to what the court can do, yes, it’s a matter of labor law, which is a matter of contract, and the NFL has to follow it as much as the players do. It cannot be arbitrary or frivolous, as multiple previous court slapdowns of it in other matters have shown (although they don’t quite get it themselves yet, obviously), and it does have to follow the evidence in its disciplinary matters. The fact that the evidence was rigged will no doubt be of interest to the court if the league does not back down before being slapped down once again. They’re being given the chance first. Heh Heh. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They’ll continue to believe what they want to believe, while the court will have to address fact instead. Hehehehehee. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No, that’s the case, except that it’s about the NFL following the processes set out in the CBA too before it gets to that point, in the good faith that it requires. That’s come up multiple times in court over the last few years, as you may know. The facts show that they failed to do so this time as well, don’t they? > > But believe what you want to about what other people believe, if you insist. HAHAHAAHHAAAAAAHAHAHAAAA!! [QUOTE=Hamlet] > [@Elvis](#): > > Your apology will be sufficient, as long as it’s sincere and appears to be. Cool. When Brady is suspended, even if for less than 4 games if they settle out of court, I fully expect you to live up to your word and admit you were wrong, as I will if the court somehow reaches the facts of the case and exonerates Brady. [/quote] HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA. :wiping tears from eyes: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/514 "2016-04-25T19:53:43Z")
Donald Trump says we should leave Tom Brady alone! He’s a good guy!!! The whole appeals process has benefited Brady, though. As the folks at Deadspin point out, the restructured contract that he’s playing under this year is massively weighted towards signing bonus and not salary. If he had served his suspension last season, it would have cost him just over $2 million in game payments. This season, the same four-game suspension will cost him about $250,000. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/515 "2016-04-25T21:32:39Z")
Got an argument there, **Hamlet**? Or is this just another exercise in unreasoned hatred? Do please note the opinion acknowledging that the 2-1 majority wasn’t addressing factuality or fairness at all. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/516 "2016-04-25T21:52:27Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If he had served his suspension last season, it would have cost him just over $2 million in game payments. This season, the same four-game suspension will cost him about $250,000. While that’s not chump change to most folks, Tom and Giselle have a combined net worth of half a billion dollars. I don’t think the money ever factored into it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/517 "2016-04-25T21:57:25Z")
Well, yes, it does, in the way that money is a way of keeping score for the hypercompetitive inconceivably-rich, like both of them. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/518 "2016-04-25T22:19:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do please note the opinion acknowledging that the 2-1 majority wasn’t addressing factuality or fairness at all. :rolleyes: [Well, sort of.](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/26/sports/tom-brady-deflategate-new-england-patriots-suspension-reinstated.html?ref=sports&_r=0) The decision did address one of the specific issues you raised in the post quoted by **Hamlet** : the extent to which the penalty follows the procedures and the level of authority outlined in the CBA. > [@](#): > > In their decision, the judges did not consider the underlying facts of the case, including the science of football deflation, but looked solely at whether Goodell, as arbitrator, acted in the spirit of the collective bargaining agreement. > > “We hold that the commissioner properly exercised this broad discretion under the collective bargaining agreement and that his procedural rulings were properly grounded in that agreement and did not deprive Brady of fundamental fairness,” Judges Barrington Daniels Parker Jr. and Denny Chin wrote in their opinion. “Accordingly, we reverse the judgment of the district court and remand with instructions to confirm the award.” So, in a sense, they did address one particular issue of factuality: they addressed the question of whether Goodell acted within his authority under the CBA. Answering that question involves a factual question of what his authority was under the CBA, and whether the actions he took comported with those terms. > [@Telemark](#): > > While that’s not chump change to most folks, Tom and Giselle have a combined net worth of half a billion dollars. I don’t think the money ever factored into it. I never said that it did. I simply made an observation about the outcome. But it is worth noting that his current agreement was hammered out in the period since the appeal began, so it’s entirely possible that someone negotiating on his behalf (his agent or lawyer) recognized the possible implications of a future suspension, and arranged to structure his current bargain such that he would be protected from losing too much income. That’s the sort of thing that agents and lawyers get paid to think about. Brady’s income might not have factored into the decision to appeal, but it’s perfectly plausible that the negotiations over his new agreement were undertaken with an eye to the possible consequences of the legal process. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/519 "2016-04-25T22:28:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Donald Trump says we should leave Tom Brady alone! He’s a good guy!!! Seriously!? FUCKTARD-OOMPAHLOOMPAH-ONE has weighed in on this…? > [@mhendo](#): > > The whole appeals process has benefited Brady, though. As the folks at Deadspin point out, the restructured contract that he’s playing under this year is massively weighted towards signing bonus and not salary. > > If he had served his suspension last season, it would have cost him just over $2 million in game payments. This season, the same four-game suspension will cost him about $250,000. So, the Last four games of the season, due to “interference” and “cheating on top of cheating” will now be Automatic Forfeits with no [del]Bribed Judge Shenanigans[/del] saving throw? About Damned Time. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/520 "2016-04-25T22:41:01Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Seriously!? FUCKTARD-OOMPAHLOOMPAH-ONE has weighed in on this…? [Yep.](http://deadspin.com/donald-trump-leave-tom-brady-alone-1772933003) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=27)