# Return of "Deflategate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401 "2015-05-06T17:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/61 "2015-05-12T13:36:05Z")
For the record, I don’t think there’s any conspiracy. It’s just that the NFL is like a monkey with a machine gun. They have enormous power over the teams to enforce the rules, but those rules are vague and punishments are inconsistent. They fucked up the punishment for Ray Rice, so now they’re overcompensating on the Pats. They wouldn’t have even looked at the game balls if the Colts didn’t bring it to their attention. Every team inflates the balls to their quarterback’s liking. If the NFL wanted to stop that they could have just sent a memo. This thing is worth a $10,000 fine at most. First round draft picks and a Brady suspension is completely over the top. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/62 "2015-05-12T13:37:16Z")
Fair enough, you didn’t say that everyone that was critical of the Patriots or thought that they did something underhanded here is a hater, just that people who did hate the Patriots would be glad to see them discredited like this. I have a knee-jerk reaction to the use of the word “haters” due to Elvis’ behavior. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/63 "2015-05-12T13:38:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I have a knee-jerk reaction to the use of the word “haters” due to Elvis’ behavior. _Your_ knee jerking is _my_ fault? You have some work to do, young man. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/64 "2015-05-12T13:42:51Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Every team inflates the balls to their quarterback’s liking. If the NFL wanted to stop that they could have just sent a memo. That was a very recent rules change, instituted at the joint request of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning, and yes, any QB who doesn’t do it is foolish. That rule is also when “kicker’s balls” were invented. I trust the NFL will now announce a review of ball condition and control policies leaguewide. Right, Roger? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/65 "2015-05-12T13:49:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > _Your_ knee jerking is _my_ fault? No, you were the one who introduced and exemplified the idiotic mentality that anyone who has an opinion on this subject which is not baghdad-bob level delusional blind defense of the Patriots is a “hater” and is only motivated by being a hater, since, of course, haters gonna hate. It taints the term, as if it were really terribly useful anyway, and suggests that someone who uses it in that way is in your camp. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/66 "2015-05-12T13:59:56Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Every team inflates the balls to their quarterback’s liking. If the NFL wanted to stop that they could have just sent a memo. This thing is worth a $10,000 fine at most. First round draft picks and a Brady suspension is completely over the top. Bullshit. Show me any evidence or implication that any other team tampered with balls after the officials tested and certified them. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/67 "2015-05-12T14:07:12Z")
I haven’t read the report, nor do I care to. Back in February there was much discussion about the level of deflation. Does the report state what the actual recorded values of the balls were before the game and after the game? To what extent were the balls under inflated? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/68 "2015-05-12T14:10:20Z")
Brady should be fined a million dollars for tossing a couple of equipment managers under the bus. Otherwise this whole affair is stupid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/69 "2015-05-12T14:19:49Z")
**TriPolar** , I somehow suspect they’re being quietly taken care of, don’t you? **sachertorte** , short version, if you were given that “data” in a STEM environment, you’d toss it as useless. **Hentor** , you know very well that only one team was investigated, don’t you? Well, 3 of 4 underinflated Colts balls were found at that game, before the refs “ran out of time”, true. An increased familiarization with the facts would help you a great deal. **RNATB** claims to be an authority on that subject; maybe he can help you - no doubt to the amusement of all. **SenorBeef** , _maybe_ this episode will one day serve as an object lesson on accepting personal responsibility for one’s actions. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/70 "2015-05-12T14:31:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **TriPolar** , I somehow suspect they’re being quietly taken care of, don’t you? Of course they are. That still doesn’t excuse him for that. But otherwise this is all pointless. There was an insignificant rule violation, maybe, there’s no real evidence that there was an intention to actually break the rules, and the idea that this had any more impact on the game than wearing unapproved corporate logos is ridiculous. The big mistake by the Patriots was not complaining about dipshit rule violations by other teams to set the precedent that the NFL would do nothing in these cases, which is what would happen if any other team did something like this. This is pure out and out anti-Patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/71 "2015-05-12T14:33:07Z")
> [@Dioptre](#): > > I find it hard to believe that most of the people commentating (not in this thread, but in the sports press) have read the report, except to extract juicy details. All of the parts ‘implicating’ Brady are in the form of “Here’s an ambiguous text message, here’s what the people who sent and received the text message told us it was about, we don’t find that credible, we think it is a clear reference to our preconceived notion of what happened”. > > Even when they say “We don’t think the explanation they gave us is credible, for reasons we will explain below” they don’t actually provide reasons, they just assert that the texts have particular meanings. > > It’s ambiguously evidenced what the actual state of the balls was, because both the gauges and the recording of pressures were unreliable. Rather than stack these uncertainties, they’ve tried to “correct” for them. This is fine if you’re trying to establish a pre-determined conclusion, but not if you’re trying to work out the range of possibilities. Take the treatment of the post-game data for example. They’ve rejected it because it doesn’t match any of the versions of what happened, instead of accepting that it shows just how variable the data collection was. > > As a work of forensic investigation, the report is incredibly low quality. Full of conclusions which are suppositions. It is clear from the report that is that it is certainly possible for any team, including the Patriots, to tamper with the balls without leaving any evidence trail. It’s fairly well evidenced that Brady was concerned and frustrated that the balls were getting over-inflated. It’s a reasonable conclusion (but by no means certain) that the balls were under-inflated at half time. > > There’s a plausible line to draw between all these things, and I wouldn’t blame any football fan for drawing that line. It’s hardly a smoking gun, particularly when it comes to implicating any individual. Given Brady’s refusal to cooperate with the investigation, neither he nor the Patriots can credibly complain about the collection of evidence, however. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/72 "2015-05-12T14:36:31Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Fair enough, you didn’t say that everyone that was critical of the Patriots or thought that they did something underhanded here is a hater, just that people who did hate the Patriots would be glad to see them discredited like this. I have a knee-jerk reaction to the use of the word “haters” due to Elvis’ behavior. Oddly, I’ve been very surprised to see the usual crowd of Jets and Cowboys fans that I know have been very reserved about this whole thing. I had a huge Cowboys fan this morning post on Facebook at this whole thing is overblown. There is a lot of hatred towards the Patriots out there. But in my circle, it’s been surprisingly subdued. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/73 "2015-05-12T14:42:45Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Bullshit. Show me any evidence or implication that any other team tampered with balls after the officials tested and certified them. Define “tampered”. Every player I’ve seen interviewed says they like the balls “worked” to remove the film they come covered in when new and to generally break them in. But if you hadn’t heard [last year](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/) the Panthers and Vikings were caught heating up balls on the sidelines during a game. The NFL simply told them that was against the rules and to stop it and they did. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/74 "2015-05-12T14:44:54Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I haven’t read the report, nor do I care to. > > Back in February there was much discussion about the level of deflation. Does the report state what the actual recorded values of the balls were before the game and after the game? To what extent were the balls under inflated? Yes, they have two lists of numbers for each ball. One from each of the two measurements the two officials did. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but they seemed to average around 11. The range is 12.5 to 13.5. Sorry, I posted upthread it was 16. Not sure why I thought that was the right number. ETA, here are the numbers. That was an easy google: > [@](#): > > Patriots Ball Blakeman Prioleau > 1 11.50 11.80 > 2 10.85 11.20 > 3 11.15 11.50 > 4 10.70 11.00 > 5 11.10 11.45 > 6 11.60 11.95 > 7 11.85 12.30 > 8 11.10 11.55 > 9 10.95 11.35 > 10 10.50 10.90 > 11 10.90 11.35 > Colts Ball Blakeman Prioleau > 1 12.70 12.35 > 2 12.75 12.30 > 3 12.50 12.95 > 4 12.55 12.15 ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/75 "2015-05-12T14:50:18Z")
I just put those into Excel. Interesting that the average of the Patriots balls tested by one official was 11.11 and the other gauge had them at 11.48. That’s a difference of .37 PSI just between the two gauges. But it looks like they were about one PSI too low. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/76 "2015-05-12T14:56:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Define “tampered”. Every player I’ve seen interviewed says they like the balls “worked” to remove the film they come covered in when new and to generally break them in. > > But if you hadn’t heard [last year](http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/ball-tampering-involving-panthers-vikings-produced-a-far-different-reaction/) the Panthers and Vikings were caught heating up balls on the sidelines during a game. > > The NFL simply told them that was against the rules and to stop it and they did. They are actually allowed to work the film off the ball. My understanding is they’re pretty much allowed to do what they want with the balls up until the refs check them. ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/77 "2015-05-12T15:34:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I just put those into Excel. Interesting that the average of the Patriots balls tested by one official was 11.11 and the other gauge had them at 11.48. > > That’s a difference of .37 PSI just between the two gauges. But it looks like they were about one PSI too low. What I find interesting is that one guy got consistantly lower values for all Pat’s balls and higher for 3 of 4 Colt’s balls. Either his guage sucks as far as accuracy goes at those PSI levels, or he was looking for the “expected” numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/78 "2015-05-12T15:34:44Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > No, you were the one who introduced and exemplified the idiotic mentality that anyone who has an opinion on this subject which is not baghdad-bob level delusional blind defense of the Patriots is a “hater” and is only motivated by being a hater, since, of course, haters gonna hate. It taints the term, as if it were really terribly useful anyway, and suggests that someone who uses it in that way is in your camp. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **SenorBeef** , _maybe_ this episode will one day serve as an object lesson on accepting personal responsibility for one’s actions. Maybe. Getting heated in here. Let’s take it to the Pit before it goes beyond this level of heat. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/79 "2015-05-12T16:10:18Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, they have two lists of numbers for each ball. One from each of the two measurements the two officials did. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but they seemed to average around 11. The range is 12.5 to 13.5. Sorry, I posted upthread it was 16. Not sure why I thought that was the right number. > > ETA, here are the numbers. That was an easy google: Thank you, that is informative. I take it these are the pressures after the game. What were the pressures before the deflation? ---
**Author:** ![Paintcharge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paintcharge/32/7946_2.png) [@Paintcharge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paintcharge)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/80 "2015-05-12T17:00:09Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Thank you, that is informative. > > I take it these are the pressures after the game. > What were the pressures before the deflation? Those were the pressures measured at halftime. The officials did not record the pre-game pressures. It is assumed that they were between the legal 12.5 and 13.5. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=5)