# Return of "Deflategate" **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 6, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401 "2015-05-06T17:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/101 "2015-05-12T18:55:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Is there a written record of this? There is a written record of the process. It’s on each game ball, which Anderson initialled after he and another official each participated in the official pre-game certification of the balls. There was no requirement nor any protocol that dictated each value for each ball be recorded somewhere. There is Anderson and Yette’s testimony regarding the values they observed. Their recollection accords with the testimony of the Patriots staff, who said they submit balls at 12.5 or 12.6 psi. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/102 "2015-05-12T19:09:16Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > You don’t have to rely on “sounds to me”, though. You can actually read the report. And you can read the responses of Brady and Kraft. You can actually look at the evidence, and make a determination based on that, rather than relying on “sounds to me”. What do any of those things have to do with the process? This is just another case of the NFL making a big deal of closing the barn doors after the horses are out. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/103 "2015-05-12T19:22:34Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > What do any of those things have to do with the process? I guess I don’t understand what you’re frustrated about. The Patriots broke the rules, the NFL punished them. I suppose you can be frustrated with the lack of structure surrounding the NFL discipline system. They’ve certainly fucked up the Ray Rice situation. But I don’t think that somehow excuses the Patriot’s actions in violating the rules, nor negates the punishment that was meted out. I do think we may agree that the ball inflation thing was overblown. But Brady’s refusal to turn over the evidence in his possession, as well as the prior history of the Patriots, show, to me at least, that the discipline was warranted. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/104 "2015-05-12T19:38:00Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I guess I don’t understand what you’re frustrated about. The Patriots broke the rules, the NFL punished them. \*\*I suppose you can be frustrated with the lack of structure surrounding the NFL discipline system. They’ve certainly fucked up the Ray Rice situation. \*\*But I don’t think that somehow excuses the Patriot’s actions in violating the rules, nor negates the punishment that was meted out. The bolded part is what I am saying. It does not excuse the violations, but I think it calls into question the appropriateness of the punishment. > [@](#): > > I do think we may agree that the ball inflation thing was overblown. But Brady’s refusal to turn over the evidence in his possession, as well as the prior history of the Patriots, show, to me at least, that the discipline was warranted. The inflation thing itself should require only a slap on the wrist. I think Brady should be fined until he bleeds for not cooperating, not to mention his earlier and comical denial. But this decade old problem with the Patriots organization isn’t that closely tied to actions that are limited to Brady and the equipment managers he screwed over as far as we know. ---
**Author:** ![mtomm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@mtomm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mtomm)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/105 "2015-05-12T19:41:59Z")
Your team cheats and the Patriots are far down the list from being #1. > **[The NFL's Biggest Cheaters](http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/)** > > A list of the real biggest NFL cheaters. What? You were expecting another team to top the list? Blame your local and national sports media for misinforming you. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/106 "2015-05-12T20:00:25Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The bolded part is what I am saying. It does not excuse the violations, but I think it calls into question the appropriateness of the punishment. I don’t think that the fact the NFL has screwed up other punishments means that this particular only occurred because of Anti-Patriotism, scapegoating, or or based on inaccurate information as you’ve said in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/107 "2015-05-12T20:08:08Z")
Thanks for answering my questions. Believe it or not, the replies are helping me understand the situation. So, if I’m understanding correctly, the assertion is that Brady is being punished for not giving his text messages to the NFL? I wouldn’t give my text messages to my employer either. Couldn’t the NFL just get the wanted texts from the person Brady sent the texts to? Or is that person also not giving up the texts? I thought I read that the NFL had a bunch of texts. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/108 "2015-05-12T20:39:40Z")
The equipment guys’ phones were team property and Wells had access to them. Brady’s is his own property. There is still considerable discussion about why Brady and the Pats are \*actually \*getting hit, the NFL statement notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/109 "2015-05-12T21:06:51Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I don’t think that the fact the NFL has screwed up other punishments means that this particular only occurred because of Anti-Patriotism, scapegoating, or or based on inaccurate information as you’ve said in this thread. I didn’t say that the information was inaccurate. However I did say this was pure out and out anti-Patriotism and I have to admit there were other factors involved, but I think it is still scapegoating because that is the NFL practice. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/110 "2015-05-12T21:18:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I didn’t say that the information was inaccurate. However I did say this was pure out and out anti-Patriotism and I have to admit there were other factors involved, but I think it is still scapegoating because that is the NFL practice. I’m not sure punishing teams who violate the rules is scapegoating. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/111 "2015-05-12T23:45:05Z")
> [@mtomm](#): > > Your team cheats and the Patriots are far down the list from being #1. > > [http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/](http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/) That is a truly remarkable website in its Patriots homerism. The guy who runs it was really quick to include the line “more probable than not” on every entry in an effort to minimize the current scandal, and boy, he sure did count a lot of things as “cheating”. The best part is that he went back several decades to make sure that the Patriots didn’t land at the top of the list, which is where they probably would be if he only included the Tom Brady era. He also gave max “cheating” value to every incident he could unless it involved the Patriots, giving “Spygate” a mere 4 “cheating points” even though it went on for years but giving Tomlin’s incursion on the field a whopping 9 even though it didn’t actually impact the game or the standings and was arguably an accident. All in all, an outstanding attempt to make the Patriots seem like a middle-of-the-road-everybody-does-it organization. Gotta give credit where credit is due, it’s quite a whitewash. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/112 "2015-05-13T00:29:42Z")
I’m afraid you’re incorrect. Only haters engage in motivated reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/113 "2015-05-13T00:45:32Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > That is a truly remarkable website in its Patriots homerism. The guy who runs it was really quick to include the line “more probable than not” on every entry in an effort to minimize the current scandal, and boy, he sure did count a lot of things as “cheating”. > > The best part is that he went back several decades to make sure that the Patriots didn’t land at the top of the list, which is where they probably would be if he only included the Tom Brady era. He also gave max “cheating” value to every incident he could unless it involved the Patriots, giving “Spygate” a mere 4 “cheating points” even though it went on for years but giving Tomlin’s incursion on the field a whopping 9 even though it didn’t actually impact the game or the standings and was arguably an accident. > > All in all, an outstanding attempt to make the Patriots seem like a middle-of-the-road-everybody-does-it organization. Gotta give credit where credit is due, it’s quite a whitewash. The text on deflategate itself is a dead giveaway. These jokers can’t even pretend to play it straight when they’re planting a false flag. That’s some really deep homerism. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/114 "2015-05-13T12:37:47Z")
Do you have a better factual analysis to offer, or just more Steeler-fan whining? [Your team ranks #2](http://yourteamcheats.com/cheaters/), behind only Denver, FTR. Now why is that, _really_? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/115 "2015-05-13T12:58:48Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > So, if I’m understanding correctly, the assertion is that Brady is being punished for not giving his text messages to the NFL? I wouldn’t give my text messages to my employer either. I would trust my employer a lot more with my texts than the NFL, which is notorious for leaking everything to the papers. Brady is right not to trust them with anything. Plus, who knows what legitimate yet embarrassing texts he has to hide? Maybe he likes sexting with Giselle. Maybe he texts his mom on game day telling her how nervous he is. I wouldn’t give up my texts either. That’s hardly “not cooperating” with an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/116 "2015-05-13T13:10:31Z")
Just in case anyone still is on the fence about ElvisL1ves’ site, here is more text from it: > [@](#): > > Upon hearing the news, NFL commissioner and former Jets public relations internRoger Goodell, struggling to look busy enough to justify his ridiculous$44 million per year salary, took the hand-off from Kravitz and ran full speed with the story, maniacally shouting “Ready!FIRE!!!Aim!” to anyone who made eye-contact as he bolted out his blast-proof office door and down the padded corridors of his dark and damp subterranean lair. Along the way, the commissioner investedcountless seconds contemplating his next move. > > Ultimately, and in a perfect display of the exceptional leadership and creative vision that landed him the job in the first place,Goodell concluded that the absolute best way to promote the NFL’s marquee sporting event in two weeks would be to aggressively smear the reputation of the one participant who he had already crafted as the league’s scapegoat for cheating. > > Goodell’swinged minions immediately began flying out windows and executing their master’s plan. Through a series of contradictory leaks and vague public announcements, the league-leakers accused the Patriots of the intentional and systematic deflation of game balls to gain an advantage in this and umpteen other games.Goodell, as expected, handled the investigation just asprofessionallyand ascompetentlyas every other one he has tackled (the Ray Rice knock-out video, the Adrian Peterson child-abuse case, Greg Hardy’s domestic violence, Spygate, Bountygate and countless other domestic assault cases…) It is about as even-handed, dispassionate and balanced a take on NFL cheating as ElvisL1ves himself is. This is how desperate Pats fans are. It’s a truly marvelous and hilarious display to behold. I wonder if ElvisL1ves sees the similarity between himself and Dick Cheney, Judith Miller and the aluminum tubes issue here. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/117 "2015-05-13T13:11:35Z")
No wonder the Browns suck. They don’t cheat. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/118 "2015-05-13T13:13:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I would trust my employer a lot more with my texts than the NFL, which is notorious for leaking everything to the papers. > > Brady is right not to trust them with anything. Plus, who knows what legitimate yet embarrassing texts he has to hide? Maybe he likes sexting with Giselle. Maybe he texts his mom on game day telling her how nervous he is. > > I wouldn’t give up my texts either. That’s hardly “not cooperating” with an investigation. It is the definition of not cooperating. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/119 "2015-05-13T13:27:09Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > No wonder the Browns suck. They don’t cheat. Well, the GM did send some bitchy texts to a coach he was feuding with. That’s way higher on the cheat scale than tampering with the equipment in a playoff game. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401/120 "2015-05-13T13:44:09Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do you have a better factual analysis to offer…? Yeah, I didn’t think so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-deflategate/719401.md?page=7)