# Return of the King - talkback (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504 "2003-12-17T08:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Kantalooppi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@Kantalooppi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kantalooppi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/181 "2003-12-23T07:29:54Z")
> [@](#): > > I could swear the Witch-king of Angmar was saying “Ohhh – you cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! Melting! Oh – what a world – what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!? Ohhh! Look out! Look out! I’m going. Ohhhh! Ohhhhhh…”; I wanted him to say “dude wtf”. ---
**Author:** ![LorieSmurf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a587f6/32.png) [@LorieSmurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LorieSmurf)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/182 "2003-12-23T11:02:36Z")
I was glad to see the Gollum origin bit at the beginning. Even though the Smeagol/Gollum character was CGI, all the movements, facial expressions, not to mention the voice, was Andy Serkis. I’m glad we got to see his actual human form on camera. 'Twas very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/183 "2003-12-23T14:04:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jsc1953 \* > \*\*Don’t ask “why didn’t the eagles just take the ring to Mt. Doom?”…part of the answer is “because there wouldn’t have been a story”. \*\* That was my wife’s question. Wasn’t this dealt with in the books? Something along the lines of the eagles are too proud do play too active a role in the affairs of men, as well as not taking instructions well. That and the fact that there wouldn’t have been a story… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/184 "2003-12-23T14:17:26Z")
Dinsdale, there’s that, and the fact that the Eagles would have gotten a beat down every time they landed. Middle Earth is big, and Eagles can’t carry burdens very far. ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/185 "2003-12-23T14:29:10Z")
Besides, it’s not as though giant eagles could just sneak into Mordor, seeing as how they’re… um… giant and all. ---
**Author:** ![substatique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@substatique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/substatique)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/186 "2003-12-23T15:03:36Z")
And you don’t want any giant flying messengers of the gods going mad with evil power. Same reason Gandalf didn’t teleport it in. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/187 "2003-12-23T15:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrFidelius \* > One quibble: Why did Gandalf, Wielder of the Flame of Anor, pyrotechnician extraordinaire, and bearer of Narya The Great, send Pippin up to light the bonfire? He could have ignited it with a glance… **The Rules** under which Gandalf worked, which are only alluded to in any of Tolkien’s published works, seem to indicate that he is not to use his Maia powers to do that which can be accomplished by another with “natural” means. In fact, that makes a useful theme for Great Debates, taken on a broader scale and applied to the real world. :eek: > [@](#): > > (I kept flashing on “The Wizard of Oz.” At Minas Morghul I thought “Now the flying monkeys should appear” and the flying wraith showed up; I could swear the Witch-king of Angmar was saying “Ohhh – you cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! Melting! Oh – what a world – what a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness!? Ohhh! Look out! Look out! I’m going. Ohhhh! Ohhhhhh…”; and when Frodo woke up in the House of Healing I expected him to say that he had a strange dream and you , and you , and you where there…) LOL! Witch King to Eowyn: “I’ll get you, my pretty, and your little hobbit too!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/188 "2003-12-23T15:22:31Z")
I thought there was also a suggestion that the eagles might not view it as all that significant - being “above” eathly concerns and all. They might just forget about it, and drop it somewhere. I’ll have to check the books… ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/189 "2003-12-23T15:24:55Z")
Dins, that’s exactly what Bombadil would have done with it. I would bet the Eagles would have been corrupted (Don Henley most of all). ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/190 "2003-12-23T15:42:00Z")
Thanks. I’m sure I was mixing up my minutiae. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/191 "2003-12-23T16:00:35Z")
Also, if the Eagles are in fact the messengers of the Valar, then they probably would have been forbidden by their masters to do anything that signifigant, much like Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/192 "2003-12-23T16:28:24Z")
I missed the Wild Men and Ghan-buri-Ghan, although it is an obvious bit to cut… Having shown that the White Tree of Gondor was dead, I’d have thought some sort of shot of the new shoot/sapling was necessary to really show that the Kingship was restored - or did I miss it in the background, somewhere? During the Coronation, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/193 "2003-12-23T16:49:05Z")
Yes, during the Coronation when the POV shifts to Aragorn looking out over the crowd you can see the White Tree of Gondor now has flowers. Also, there was what appeared to be large snowflakes floating about, which I assumed were petals from the White Tree. ---
**Author:** ![Ol\_Gaffer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Ol\_Gaffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ol_Gaffer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/194 "2003-12-23T17:25:04Z")
I also had the feeling from time Gandalf realizes that Frodo’s ring is THE ring that he (Gandalf) would really like to minimize how many times the ring changes hands. Remember, Bilbo had already demonstrated that hobbits have some resistance to the power of the ring. I would, therefore, surmise that going with a hobbit (as opposed to an eagle) has some greater degree of assurance to the powers that be. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/195 "2003-12-23T17:25:22Z")
Gandalf almost entirely worked by pursuasion and encouragement, not by overt displays of power. He really only showed his power on four occasions in the entire Lord of the Rings, and two of those occasions took place offstage: 1. The battle with the Nazgul at Weathertop, three days before Aragorn and the hobbits got there. There is a reference in the book to their seeing what looked like lightning off in the distance at that time. 2. The battle with the Wargs just before they entered Moria. This was a scene which I would have loved to see in the movie. “That was an eye-opener, and no mistake!” 3. The confrontation with the Balrog. Gandalf attempted to put a closing spell on the door of the Chamber of Records, and the counter-spell (presumably from the Balrog) was “terrible”. At the bridge, Gandalf struck the bridge with his staff, and there was a great flash as the bridge broke, but I have never been certain if this was intended by Gandalf, or was a side effect of the breaking of his staff. 4. The confrontation with the flying Nazgul in front of Minas Tirth. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/196 "2003-12-23T19:15:11Z")
Wouldn’t his fight with Sauraman count too? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/197 "2003-12-23T19:39:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vandal \* > \*\*Wouldn’t his fight with Sauraman count too? \*\* The ‘fight’ took place only in the movies. In the book, it was Gandalf giving in to the inevitability of defeat by a more powerful Maiar who would not have scrupled to rein in his powers as Gandalf was required to do. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/198 "2003-12-23T21:04:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rocking chair \* > \*\*also i’m a bit confused as to where exactly montana is, in middle earth… \*\* Eh? Where did they mention Montana? I don’t recall any scene where Sam Neill got shot… ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/199 "2003-12-23T22:04:42Z")
Are you suggesting that Rosie is big and fat? That’s insulting! ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504/200 "2003-12-23T22:26:03Z")
Eowyn didn’t laugh. That’s the best single moment in the whole 1,000 pages. Dang. I have had a problem with each movie in that I’ve been distracted by what wasn’t there, or was in the wrong place, or was there but shouldn’t have been. On subsequent viewings I find it easier to watch the movie as it is without the constant sub-text of correction running in my head. Anybody else having this reaction? **Qadgop** , you know more about LotR than the rest of us (maybe more than the rest of us put together). Why don’t you have this problem? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/return-of-the-king-talkback-spoilers/219504.md?page=11)