# Returning the boy to Cuba...anyone's thoughts on this **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 6, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244 "2000-01-06T21:12:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/41 "2000-01-10T03:43:00Z")
## quote: 1. Mexicans cannot apply for political asylum. Therefore while ruadh is correct in that if a Mexican parent wanted the child back, the child would go back, but the analogy fails when applied to a Cuban child. -Majormd * * * ## quote: True enough - Jorge * * * > [@](#): > > Sorry for being off-topic and repetitive, but it’s not “true enough.” You may remember the case of Jesus Valles, a Mexican soldier who refused to take part in the slaughter of Zapatista rebels. He was given asylum in the US early last year. It is true that very few Mexicans are granted asylum, but there is nothing stopping them applying. > -ruadh True enough. * * * Sue from El Paso Experience is what you get when you didn’t get what you wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@Jorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/42 "2000-01-10T05:15:00Z")
Point taken, but I thought that’s what “true enough” referred to… “a la 99%”. Heck, _Canadians_ could probably apply for asylum - just think of an Anglophone from Quebec 🙂 - but generally not. My point was that the claim by the Miami lawyers that the INS must answer to the “evil oppression” the boy will suffer - which overrides the dad’s rights - is scurrilous, considering it unlikely that any Mexican was ever given asylum for other than specific personal threats [for which there is **no** evidence here] although the living conditions are far, far worse. BTW: the choice of Elian US relatives’ lawyers seems unusual, given the circumstances. Not enough Cuban-Am attorneys willing to work pro-bono ? ---
**Author:** ![Anti\_Pro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Anti\_Pro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anti_Pro)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/43 "2000-01-10T05:30:00Z")
This subject has been blown up so out of proportion, that it is becoming a political hot potato, and while the issues being discussed here, the possible racism involved, ARE subjects that need to be aired, it misses the main point. If we turned this story around, and it was Joe’s ex who was swimming toward Cuba (okay, she IS short on brains, but put that aside for the moment.) She and her new hubby are killed, and Joe’s son, who was being kidnapped, lives and lands on Cuban soil. Anyone want to guess where the boy is going to go then? He simply goes back to Joe. That is the law, THAT is the issue. Joe’s ex was breaking the law, and you don’t reward criminal behavior. It sickens me to see politicians using this boy, and even more so to find out the senator from my own state was involved in trying to keep the boy here. I’d like to ask Mr. Coverdell if his Mrs. ever splits after he has custody of his little junior, and she swims to Peru (she’s a great little swimmer)and gets eaten by ‘Jaws’ does he want Peru to keep little Junior? The little boy needs his dad, not a bunch of politicians or people with some other agenda to use him for their own purposes. Okay, the soapbox is being put in the closet, but I hope that good sense and justice win out here folks. * * * “Consider it a challenge…” ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/44 "2000-01-10T05:55:00Z")
Sorry, Jorge, I was just being pedantic. You and I are, of course, on the same side on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@Jorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2000, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/45 "2000-01-10T07:10:00Z")
No worries, mate. Coverdell resurfaces ? I met him when he became Director of the Peace Corps. What an insincere, ignorant buffoon, incapable of retaining even the simplest of briefing material. Of course, this at a time when Peace Corps was having a good deal of trouble with accusations of playing politics, _verboten_ by its charter. (USPC itself is a good institution when run right, BTW; no imprecation intended.) Coverdell, Gingrich, John Rocker… Don’t leave the state there, Anti-Pro; it’ll dumb down the curve. ---
**Author:** ![Anti\_Pro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Anti\_Pro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anti_Pro)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2000, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/46 "2000-01-11T04:11:00Z")
Blushing… Thanks for the compliment Jorge, you wouldn’t believe the op ed pages here supporting John Rocker, it is SO depressing. I would think the Atlanta Journal is printing only the predominate positive letters to keep the imbecile in town. But, oh brother…psychological testing for a bigot??? Your previous experience with Mr. Coverdell doesn’t bode well with my writing to him asking him the same questions I asked here, basically, what if YOU were the father, and another country decided IT knew best what to do with your child. If his memory is truly that bad, I’ll send some ginkoba along with the letter. Maybe that will help! * * * “Consider it a challenge…” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/47 "2000-01-12T04:33:00Z")
And the plot thickens! Please be so kind as to check [http://www.cnn.com](http://www.cnn.com) and read the latest on this case. It turns out the spokesman for the Miami-based relatives of the child in question used to work for the state judge who just issued a (meaningless legally) edict delaying the federal agency’s decree. Sure as heck looks like the judge is repaying favours now, doesn’t it?! ---
**Author:** ![Anti\_Pro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Anti\_Pro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anti_Pro)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/48 "2000-01-12T06:35:00Z")
Thanks for the update Monty, I hadn’t heard that. I’m still wrestling with the fact of Representative Dan Burton giving Elian a subpoena. The INS is part of the Executive Branch of government does that give the INS decision superiority over the Congressional subpoena?? Anyone know? I’m no student of law, for sure, but I thought there had to be at least an investigation to subpoena someone for testimony. The Senate holds trials, why would Representative Burton be able to call anyone? Inquiring minds want to know! * * * Judy * * * “Consider it a challenge…” ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2000, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/49 "2000-01-12T17:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I think he should also be given the right to come to the US as a legal alien, sponsored > by his Miami relatives, at anytime, say between the age of 18 & 25. I have heard the > someone in Congress has also made a similar proposal. I think this compromise > preserves the father-child bond, and yet allows Elian the right to self-determination > that cannot be fully exercised at age 6. Is that assuming that Castro and communist Cuba would be history by then? > [@](#): > > IIRC, the boy was picked up in the water. If that is the case, he should be sent back > to Cuba with no questions asked, as INS policy dictates. The boy was picked up in the water by a fisherman and brought to shore. Once a Cuban reaches land, they have a right to apply for asylum. > [@](#): > > It turns out the spokesman for the Miami-based relatives of the child in question used to work for the state judge who just issued a (meaningless legally) edict delaying the federal agency’s decree. Sure as heck looks like the judge is repaying favours now, doesn’t it?! Well, at least it was the judge paying the lawyer for consulting services and not vice versa. They were payments for consultation for the judge’s re-election campaign last year. Since the campaign is over, the past relationship was immaterial in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/50 "2000-01-13T01:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Since the campaign is over, the past relationship was immaterial in this case. Except, of course, in the world of legal realities in the United States. According to the legal ethics professor on CNN this morning, that prior relationship was reason enough for the judge to remove herself from this case. Let’s see it this way: you and I have a civil dispute and I take it to court. It turns out that the judge and I used to work together. What’s your stance? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/51 "2000-01-13T02:24:00Z")
My stance is, the judge should recuse him or herself. Have you heard the latest? Now, the relatives are saying flatly they won’t give the kid up. * * * CERTIFIABLY NOT! INSANE! ---
**Author:** ![RobRoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ba0ec/32.png) [@RobRoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobRoy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/52 "2000-01-13T03:33:00Z")
Now Gore has jumped in. yuk. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/53 "2000-01-13T04:28:00Z")
> [@](#): > > The boy was picked up in the water by a fisherman and brought to shore. Once a > Cuban reaches land, they have a right to apply for asylum. Parole. They have a right to apply for parole. Asylum is something else. What I’m not sure about is whether anyone other than the parent or legal guardian of a minor has a right to apply for him. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/54 "2000-01-13T15:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Except, of course, in the world of legal realities in the United States. According to the legal ethics professor on CNN this morning, that prior relationship was reason enough for the judge to remove herself from this case. I’m no legal expert, so I’ll defer to what I read at MSNBC: [http://www.msnbc.com/news/353194.asp](http://www.msnbc.com/news/353194.asp) > [@](#): > > Rodriguez said in a statement Tuesday she was not required to remove herself from the case. “According to the canons of judicial ethics … a judge has no ethical obligation to disclose participation by attorneys or participants in a past judicial election campaign,” the statement said. > Gutierrez, who earned $10,000 for his work on the campaign, said Tuesday it was not a conflict of interest and he hasn’t spoken with the judge in 18 months. > “She paid me for a job. I did my job. I finished. > Eighteen months later this came up. I’m not party to the lawsuit. I’m not mentioned in the lawsuit. I’m not a relative of Elian Gonzalez. And I’m not the adoptive father of the little boy,” he said. > An expert on judicial ethics agreed, saying judges have all kinds of relationships with people in their communities. > “We simply don’t require judges to step aside every time a person involved with a judge in one of those capacities is also involved in a case before the judge,” said Prof. Stephen Giles from the New York University Law > School. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/55 "2000-01-13T15:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Parole. They have a right to apply for parole. Asylum is something else. Again, I’m no immigration expert, but I’m pretty sure its asylum and not parole. Having lived in South Florida for 25 years, its become pretty common to see Cuban immigrants on the news making it to shore. Perhaps the news stations have been mistakenly using the word ‘asylum’ when describing the legal process, but still I don’t think its ‘parole’. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Nixon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@Nixon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nixon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2000, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/56 "2000-01-13T17:10:00Z")
I’m amazed how this non-issue has become such a controversy that involves even the major Presidential contenders. It transcends the Cuban-American community ( and the expected pandering for their votes in the Florida primaries.) Contrast this debate with the low-volume, minimal interest, much more important story on our relation with the world’s largest Communist dictatorship. China’s increasing persecution of religious and political dissenters, their continued use of millions of Gulag laborers (some assembling those inexpensive products exported here), their occupation (worsened through encouraged immigragtion)of Tibet, their threats against Taiwan, and their continuing military modernization all point to a rough period in future relations. But our relations with China, contain none of the insane vitriol given to Castro. Maybe Fidel and his goons have a point about their argument that America considers Cuba as a once and future client-state. And how many protesters are wearing clothes made in Chinese Gulag sweat shops? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/57 "2000-01-14T04:21:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Again, I’m no immigration expert, but I’m pretty sure its asylum and not parole. Having lived in South Florida for 25 years, its become pretty common to see Cuban immigrants on the news making it to shore. Perhaps the news stations have been mistakenly using the word ‘asylum’ when describing the legal process, but still I don’t think its ‘parole’. I could be wrong. I’m an immigration paralegal. It’s parole. And yes, the media are just as guilty of this mistake. Under the so-called “wet feet/dry feet” policy which allows any Cuban who makes it to US shores to remain here, the admission status which they are granted is called parole. That’s really just a fancy name for “you can stay here as long as you like.” It is routinely issued to any Cuban who makes it to shore and applies for it, except those who are excludable on other grounds (criminality and the like). Asylum, on the other hand, can be applied for whether or not you arrive here. You can apply for it while you’re still in Cuba. You can apply for it if the Coast Guard intercepts your boat. And, you can apply for it once you arrive in the US, but in most cases you won’t need to, since you’re eligible for parole. To be granted asylum you must demonstrate a credible fear of persecution in your home country. (Yes, there was a time when any Cuban who applied for asylum received it, but that day is over and most Cubans intercepted on their way here **are** denied asylum and sent back.) I have actually seen a few articles lately describing the Miami relatives as trying to apply for “asylum or admission” - which shows that at least some of the media know there’s a difference … ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2000, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/58 "2000-01-14T05:50:00Z")
The boy belongs with his father. Period. ---
**Author:** ![RobRoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7ba0ec/32.png) [@RobRoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobRoy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/59 "2000-01-15T06:35:00Z")
Unless the father wants him to be in the US. Supposedly (unconfirmed) the father called HIS relatives in Florida and asked them to take care of the boy for him. Castro is using him and he has no choice but to shake his fist. This is a sticky issue, but how sad it would be if the boy was sent back, and the father’s wish, that he stay with the father’s relatives could not be voiced. If you saw the interview the other night, when they asked Sr. R what he wanted to say to his relatives, it was much milder than the previous rhetoric about the situation. Read between the lines… ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2000, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244/60 "2000-01-15T07:00:00Z")
Gee. Wonder why that’s “unconfirmed.” Who’s claiming this, RobRoy? I find it really incredible the number of people who refuse to believe that a father would want his son back, and insist he’s just under pressure to pretend that he does. With **no** evidence whatsoever. It seems a bit like an Ugly American “of course everybody wants to be here” attitude. Which interview are you talking about, BTW? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/returning-the-boy-to-cuba-anyones-thoughts-on-this/17244.md?page=4)