# Revealed: torture was used to foil al-Qaeda 2010 plot to bomb two airliners **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 3, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099 "2015-03-03T15:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/21 "2015-03-03T21:23:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are ere any other evil but supposedly effective acts you would like to apply that philosophy to? Suicide bombing? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/22 "2015-03-03T21:24:42Z")
What’s a few hundred deaths compared to being a good country? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/23 "2015-03-03T21:24:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are ere any other evil but supposedly effective acts you would like to apply that philosophy to? Telemarketing? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/24 "2015-03-03T21:34:03Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Telemarketing? I said evil, not Satanic. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/25 "2015-03-03T21:34:15Z")
Advertising in general? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/26 "2015-03-03T21:37:29Z")
I’m calling BS on the “17 minutes before explosion” part. Where were the aircraft? Who could have altered the scenario in 17 minutes to prevent the explosion? I could imagine a scenario where they learned that a bomb was in package X about to be loaded onto flight Y, and they intercepted the package at the airport before loading, a scant few minutes before departure. That’s plausible. But that’s 17 minutes before a bomb was planted, not before an explosion. Schedules aren’t punctual enough to plan a timer-bomb to go off just after takeoff or before landing. You need to aim for mid-flight. Pan Am 103 fell over land and the wreckage recovered only because the flight was an hour late; the timer was set such that had the flight been on time the aircraft would have been well out in the North Atlantic. So some part of the claim is IMO either garbled or pure BS. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2015, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/27 "2015-03-03T21:41:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are ere any other evil but supposedly effective acts you would like to apply that philosophy to? Proselytizing atheist? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/28 "2015-03-04T00:05:27Z")
Most contemporaneous accounts of the bomb plot tell a different story - that a man and former Guantanamo prisoner who had rejoined Al-Queda named Jabir Juban al-Fayfi turned himself in to Saudi authorities and revealed the details of the plot. Saudi intelligence then called British intelligence and the plot was intercepted. > **[Cargo plane bomb plot: profile of Jabir Jubran al-Fayfi](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/8101131/Cargo-plane-bomb-plot-profile-of-Jabir-Jubran-al-Fayfi.html)** > > Intelligence that helped crack the ink bomb plot may have come from a leading member of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula who turned himself in. > **[2010 transatlantic aircraft bomb plot](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_planes_bomb_plot)** > > On October 29, 2010, two packages, each containing a bomb consisting of 300 to 400 grams (11–14 oz) of plastic explosives and a detonating mechanism, were found on separate cargo planes. The bombs were discovered as a result of intelligence received from Saudi Arabia's security chief. They were in transport from Yemen to the United States and were discovered at stopover locations: one at East Midlands Airport in the UK and one in Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. > One week later, al-Qaeda in t... There is some speculation that al-Fayfi was working as a double agent when he rejoined al-Qaeda, or maybe he was just a wishy-washy terrorist. But there are a multitude of reasons why it wouldn’t be smart to interrogate a willing informant . This story seems to make more sense to me than the suggestion that they somehow obtained and tortured a stalwart terrorist who was unwilling to talk. How would they know who to torture and what questions to ask? Even if they had gotten wind of the plot, how would they have known exactly who had the relevant details? If they had the kind of intelligence that let them know EXACTLY which individuals knew the flight numbers and relevant villain-foiling details, why couldn’t they figure out the rest without torturing anyone? The guy in Terr’s linked article seems to think that the fact that Mi6 called Saudi Arabia with specific questions and got quick answers means there was someone being tortured for information, but it is also consistent with the presence of a willing informant. Methinks that the former head of Mi6 is suffering from a case of Williams-O’Reilly Syndrome. Oh, and torture is immoral and shouldn’t be used under any circumstances but I still wanted to call BS. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/29 "2015-03-04T01:21:19Z")
Nice work **Ann Hedonia**. Sir John Sawers’ story is full of shit. And even if he could show concrete evidence that torture had averted any terrorist plot torture remains ‘illegal and abhorrent’. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099/30 "2015-03-04T01:37:47Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Williams-O’Reilly Syndrome Nice. Took me a moment to get it (since my brain keeps turning Brian Williams into Brian Wilson), but nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revealed-torture-was-used-to-foil-al-qaeda-2010-plot-to-bomb-two-airliners/714099.md?page=1)