# revelations **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 5, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347 "2003-07-05T04:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![captainQwark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e68b1a/32.png) [@captainQwark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/captainQwark)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/1 "2003-07-05T04:48:26Z")
why is the book of revelations so cryptic? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/2 "2003-07-05T05:06:04Z")
Because it was written in what is known as the “apocalyptic” style. Apocalyptic literatures was deliberately written in such an esoteric way that it would only be understood by its intended audience. The Book of Revelation (Singular “Revelation,” not plural “Revelations”) used poetic allegory and coded images to communicate a message of hope to the faithful that would not be understood by casual Romans. The whole book is about the persecution of Romans under Domitian and God’s coming vengence against the Roman Empire. The “Whore of Babylon” was Rome, the “Beast” was the Emperor (in this case basically a combination of Nero and Domitian. Domitian was widely believed at the time to have been Nero in disguise). Revelation told Christians to hang tough and that Jesus was going to come back and kick ass against the Romans. To an average Roman soldier, though, it would all just look like hallucinatory gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/3 "2003-07-05T05:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The whole book is about the persecution of Romans under Domitian That should say it was about the persecution of CHRISTIANS under Domitian. Doh! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/4 "2003-07-05T15:26:21Z")
DtC- I agree that the Revelation was written to encourage C’tians under Roman persecution, but do you really think a Roman reader, especially a Gov’t official, wouldn’t have figured out that blood-drunk Whore on the Seven-Headed Beast that represents a City on Seven Mountains has something to do with the Roman Empire? But then, I actually think the Whore was Apostate Jerusalem, the Beast was Rome (represented by Neron Kesar aka 666) & that John wrote in the early 60sAD. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/5 "2003-07-05T15:42:51Z")
The majority of current scholarship puts Revelation in the late 90’s near the end of Domitian’s reign. Eusebius wrote than John was banished to Patmos during Domitian’s reign. The interpretation I outlined above is actually the interpretation of the Catholic Church. From [Catholic Encyclopedia](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01594b.htm) > [@](#): > > The beast from the sea that had received plenitude of power from the dragon, or Satan, is the Roman Empire, or rather, Caesar, its supreme representative. The token of the beast with which its servants are marked is the image of the emperor on the coins of the realm. This seems to be the obvious meaning of the passage, that all business transactions, all buying and selling were impossible to them that had not the mark of the beast > > \ > > The eighth emperor is Domitian (81-96). Of him the Seer has something very peculiar to say. He is identified with the beast. He is described as the one that “was and is not and shall come up out of the bottomless pit” (xvii, 8). In verse 11 it is added: “And the beast which was and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction”. All this sounds like oracular language. But the clue to its solution is furnished by a popular belief largely spread at the time. The death of Nero had been witnessed by few. Chiefly in the East a notion had taken hold of the mind of the people that Nero was still alive. Gentiles, Jews, and Christians were under the illusion that he was hiding himself, and as was commonly thought, he had gone over to the Parthians, the most troublesome foes of the empire. From there they expected him to return at the head of a mighty army to avenge himself on his enemies. The existence of this fanciful belief is a well-attested historic fact. Tacitus speaks of it: “Achaia atque Asia falso exterrit velut Nero adventaret, vario super ejus exitu rumore eoque pluribus vivere eum fingentibus credentibusque” (Hist., II, 8). So also Dio Chrysostomus: kai nyn (about A.D. 100) eti pantes epithymousi zen oi de pleistoi kai oiontai (Orat., 21, 10; cf. Suet., “Vit. Caes.” s.v. Nero, 57, and the Sibyliine Oracles, V, 28-33). Thus the contemporaries of the Seer believed Nero to be alive and expected his return. The Seer either shared their belief or utilized it for his own purpose. Nero had made a name for himself by his cruelty and licentiousness. The Christians in particular had reason to dread him. Under him the first persecution took place. The second occurred under Domitian. But unlike the previous one, it was not confined to Italy, but spread throughout the provinces. Many Christians were put to death, many were banished (Eusebius, Hist. Eccl., III, 17-19). In this way the Seer was led to regard Domitian as a second Nero, “Nero redivivus”. Hence he described him as “the one that was, that is not, and that is to return”. Hence also he counts him as the eighth and at the same time makes him one of the preceding seven, viz. the fifth, Nero. The identification of the two emperors suggested itself all the more readily since even pagan authors called Domitian a second Nero (calvus Nero, Juvenal. IV, 38). The popular belief concerning Nero’s death and return seems to be referred to also in the passage (xiii, 3): “And I saw one of its heads as it were slain to death: and its death’s wound was healed”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/6 "2003-07-05T16:48:21Z")
Then again, maybe John of Patmos just happened to nibble some bread with lots of ergot in it. Or some Persian or Indian funny-mushrooms or whatever they used to make _soma_ or _haoma_. Or maybe he was into to the extreme monkish austerities – too much of those could put some really funny ideas into your head! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revelations/186347/7 "2003-07-05T16:59:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Then again, maybe John of Patmos just happened to nibble some bread with lots of ergot in it. . . . Given that Revelation was written rather well in a specific style that followed a specific format–a style that was incorporated into numerous other works by several other authors–the notion that it is simply the result of a drug-induced frenzy, while mildly amusing, fails to recognize the actual intent or effort of the author.