# Reversal of the door-to-door salesman rant **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2003, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541 "2003-06-26T15:59:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/121 "2003-07-04T18:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > **I will venture to guess that the real reason folks are rude to door to door salesmen is they assume the salesman will be rude if the folks are nice.** Au contraire, **Jonmarzie**. People are rude to door-to-door salesmen because said salesmen have intruded upon their personal living quarters, unasked-for, to offer unwanted products, at a generally inconvenient time, interrupting us doing something we WANT to do to have to tell someone to go away, often causing consternation among our dogs/kids/etc., and generally intruding where they are NOT WANTED. I had a large, clear “no soliciting” sign directly above my doorbell where it could NOT be missed for four years. As far as I can tell, it was not respected one single time. Door-to-door salesmen HAVE to be rude or they wouldn’t have the nerve to intrude upon peoples’ homes, where they are so clearly not wanted, in the first place. With or without a “no soliciting sign.” You just don’t get it, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Doomtrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/0ea827/32.png) [@Doomtrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doomtrain)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/122 "2003-07-04T19:18:25Z")
I think what’s sad is this attitude that we should all be grateful for contact with door-to-door salesman. Apparently, we’re all so socially starved that talking to door-to-door salesmen would be the highlight of our conversational and social days! ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/123 "2003-07-04T20:47:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Jonmarzie > Maybe I’m just ignorant, but knocking on someone’s door isn’t rude. If that were the case, those brass rings on doors would be asking for trouble. I agree that for the most part, door to door salesmen are rude. However, that doesn’t make all door to door salesmen rude. You shouldn’t assume that a salesman at you door will be that way. It’s like not bothering to speak to someone of Middle Eastern descent because you assume they only speak Arabic. Who knows? Maybe you’ll get something out of the conversation. Maybe the salesman will be nice. You never know. You are just ignorant. Knocking on someone’s door to sell them stuff is rude. You seem to be the only one in this thread who thinks that it is not. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/124 "2003-07-04T22:24:22Z")
It’s rude. ``` No, it's not. ``` Yes, it is. ``` No, it's not. ``` Is! ``` ISN'T! ``` I think we have reached the ‘no one is going to change their minds’ endpoint, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/125 "2003-07-04T22:42:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mama Tiger \* > I had a large, clear “no soliciting” sign directly above my doorbell where it could NOT be missed for four years. As far as I can tell, it was not respected one single time. How could you tell it was not respected one single time. Do you have a video camera that records who comes to the door and doesn’t knock? Or are you just assuming that because a few ignore the sign, everyone does? > [@](#): > > Door-to-door salesmen HAVE to be rude or they wouldn’t have the nerve to intrude upon peoples’ homes, where they are so clearly not wanted, in the first place. With or without a “no soliciting sign.” This is what I have an issue with. Obviously, if someone has a no soliciting sign, they don’t want solicitors, and I never knocked on those doors. Frankly, odds are I’d be wasting my time if I tried to get a contribution - waste of my time. However, if you don’t have a no soliciting sign, how can I tell I’m “clearly not wanted.” > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by StarvingButStrong \* > I think we have reached the ‘no one is going to change their minds’ endpoint, don’t you? No, I don’t. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/126 "2003-07-04T23:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by magog \* > \*\*However, if you don’t have a no soliciting sign, how can I tell I’m “clearly not wanted.” > > \*\* When you knock on someone’s door, unsolicited, to sell them something, the odds are good that (1) you are unwanted; and (2) you are interrupting somebody’s life. Enough so that it’s rude. A more extreme example is the man who pinches a girl’s rear end on the subway. Yes, it’s remotely possible that such attentions are not unwanted, but sufficiently unlikely to make the act rude. > [@](#): > > I think we have reached the ‘no one is going to change their minds’ endpoint, don’t you? Agree. If folks don’t understand by now that door-to-door sales are per se rude, there is no convincing them. ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/127 "2003-07-05T04:17:45Z")
I’m going to beat this horse a few more times… > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > When you knock on someone’s door, unsolicited, to sell them something, the odds are good that (1) you are unwanted; and (2) you are interrupting somebody’s life. Enough so that it’s rude. Cite? Seriously, if the odds are good that I am unwanted, then it would follow that I (or any other political canvasser / salesperson) wouldn’t get any signatures or contributions or sales. Right? Then how come the goal was $120 of contributions a night and 30-60 signatures, and that goal was often met? I’m not an uber-solicitor or anything, but enough people were at least willing to hear me out. If odds are good that salespeople are unwanted, why do companies employ salespeople? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/128 "2003-07-05T04:52:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonmarzie \* > \*\*You shouldn’t assume that a salesman at you door will be that way. It’s like not bothering to speak to someone of Middle Eastern descent because you assume they only speak Arabic. \*\* This is a very faulty comparison. Making assumptions based on appearance, ethnicity, religion, is one thing. Making assumptions based on a job is another. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I will venture to guess that the real reason folks are rude to door to door salesmen is they assume the salesman will be rude if the folks are nice. What’s the worst that can happen? You have to give up being nice and kick them out. Certainly a little civility is much better than not trying. At the very least, you’ll spend time gaining a little character instead of losing it. \*\* Many folks are rude to salesman because being nice does not make them go away. 5 minutes spent politely trying to get a salesman to leave means that I’m 5 minutes closer to death. If you waste 5 minutes of my life, I will NEVER have them back. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/129 "2003-07-05T05:20:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonmarzie \* > \*\*Maybe I’m just ignorant, but knocking on someone’s door isn’t rude. If that were the case, those brass rings on doors would be asking for trouble. \*\* The little brass ring on my door is there so that family or friends can tell me that they have arrived, so that I can let them in. It is not an open invitation for any wandering asshole to force themselves into my life and attempt to separate me from my time and money. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/130 "2003-07-05T08:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonmarzie \* > **Who knows? Maybe you’ll get something out of the conversation. Maybe the salesman will be nice.** Maybe Jennifer Love Hewitt will be going door-to-door offering free blowjobs. But probably not. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/131 "2003-07-05T13:15:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by magog \* > \*\*I’m going to beat this horse a few more times… > Cite? > > Seriously, if the odds are good that I am unwanted, then it would follow that I (or any other political canvasser / salesperson) wouldn’t get any signatures or contributions or sales. Right? \*\* Nope. The rejection rate is high but not 100%. \*\* > [@](#): > > I’m not an uber-solicitor or anything, but enough people were at least willing to hear me out. If odds are good that salespeople are unwanted, why do companies employ salespeople? \*\* Because they know that a certain (low) percentage of the time, the person will make a sale. As with spam or telemarketing, companies balance the cost of making all the sales pitches against the profit from the small number of sales that are made. The trouble is that they don’t factor in the costs imposed upon folks who don’t want their lives interrupted by these pitches. Anyway, the exact arguments you make could be made about spam and telemarketing. Is it your position that these practices are not rude? ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/132 "2003-07-05T14:38:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > Because they know that a certain (low) percentage of the time, the person will make a sale. As with spam or telemarketing, companies balance the cost of making all the sales pitches against the profit from the small number of sales that are made. The trouble is that they don’t factor in the costs imposed upon folks who don’t want their lives interrupted by these pitches. Again, I’m refering to your original statement about “clearly not wanted.” If everyone hated door to door salesmen with the passion you seem to have, then it would not be profitable. It is profitable, therefore some people must not mind them. If some people don’t mind them, they are not “clearly not wanted.” You brought up the example of pinching a girl’s bum in a subway. The counter-example is a woman in a single’s bar who is getting pissed off that strange men are asking her for a date. Door to door salesmen are somewhere in between those two extremes. > [@](#): > > Anyway, the exact arguments you make could be made about spam and telemarketing. Is it your position that these practices are not rude? Assuming that there was an equivalent of a “No Soliciting” sign for spam and telemarketing, I don’t think these practices are rude. For telemarketing, this is happening via the “Do Not Call” list. Sort of. For spam, well, good luck on that. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/133 "2003-07-05T18:11:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by magog \* > \*\*Again, I’m refering to your original statement about “clearly not wanted.” \*\* Please show me where I made any claims that door-to-door salesmen are “clearly not wanted.” \*\* > [@](#): > > It is profitable, therefore some people must not mind them. If some people don’t mind them, they are not “clearly not wanted.”\*\* Ok, so is it your position that any intrusive sales technique that is profitable is not rude (assuming it’s done in a polite manner)? \*\* > [@](#): > > Assuming that there was an equivalent of a “No Soliciting” sign for spam and telemarketing, I don’t think these practices are rude. For telemarketing, this is happening via the “Do Not Call” list. Sort of. For spam, well, good luck on that. \*\* The “do not call” list has not yet been implemented. Just so we’re clear, is it your position that telemarketing – as practiced right now – is not necessarily rude? ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/134 "2003-07-05T21:19:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonmarzie \* > It makes me sad to see that the majority of the folks here are genuinely willing to be asinine to someone simply because of their profession. \*\* Boo-hoo-hoo, pick a profession in which you don’t be asinine to people in the first place if you don’t want people to be asinine right back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Riboflavin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Riboflavin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riboflavin)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/135 "2003-07-05T21:37:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SciFiSam \* > That’s a good point. It would definitely be a healthy attitude to take. However, the problem is that some people don’t separate the advertisement from the person. **Riboflavin** has repeatedly called me an asshole for the heinous crime of _not noticing a sign in the dark_. He’s not separating the task from the person at all. There you go, simply lying again. I have called you an asshole for the crime of trespassing on private property in order to solicit someone who has clearly posted that they do not wish any solicitations, thereby distrubing them at home in spite of the fact that they told you that such behavior would disturb them. I don’t care what your excuse is for your assholery, > [@](#): > > I am female, and have already referred to myself as ‘she’ in this thread. I wouldn’t usually bother correcting your use of my name, but since you did it in your next post as well, please note that there is a c in scifi. I’ve got better things to do with my life than keep track of the gender of every idiot on the internet with an abiguous screen name. If you’re going to whine about people calling you a ‘he’ instead of a ‘she’, pick an obviously female name or a signature that mentions that you’re female. > [@](#): > > And I never said that I would do that. I said it happened a couple of times by accident, but as long as I did see the sign, I didn’t knock. That is explicitly stating that I wouldn’t fool around with ‘no soliciting’ sign folks. You explicitly said:“No, just that you get into a routine, walking from door to door, and occasionally miss some of the details, especially in the dark.” The ‘accident’ was that you were too lazy to read a damn sign before disturbing someone in their home. While you can try to lie about it being an ‘accident’, it’s clearly not something beyond your control but rather that you were unwilling to put forth the trivial effort to glance over for a sign before harassing someoen. > [@](#): > > I have made no errors whatsoever. Yours are mounting up. You’re down to telling outright lies about stuff that you’ve said before (the ‘occasionally miss some of the details’ bit, which is a tad different than the original tale), and my mistakes that are ‘mounting up?’ Gee, I didn’t read something that you never wrote, and I forgot your gender since you chose an androgenous screen name. > [@](#): > > If they do so after it comes into force, sure. But it hasn’t yet, so you have no point at all. Since telemarketers have provided nothing comprable to a ‘no soliciting’ sign, and in fact actively work to get around filters against their obnoxiousness, they’re **all** assholes until the DNC list comes online, not just some. I’ve made the point before. ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/136 "2003-07-06T02:17:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > Please show me where I made any claims that door-to-door salesmen are “clearly not wanted.” My apologies. I should have said “the” statement that door to door salesmen are not wanted. Not your statement. I was just asking for a cite. > [@](#): > > Ok, so is it your position that any intrusive sales technique that is profitable is not rude (assuming it’s done in a polite manner)? > … > Just so we’re clear, is it your position that telemarketing – as practiced right now – is not necessarily rude? \*\* What I’m saying is what I did - go from door to door, tell people about what we’re working on politics-wise, and ask for contributions, fell within the normal bounds of “politeness,” IMHO. If no one answered, I didn’t repeatedly knock on their door, if there was a no soliciting sign, I didn’t knock, I stopped if people said they weren’t interested. I can sleep soundly at night. So, for your first question, no, obviously. I’ve already addressed stuff like spam. For your second question, again, “as practiced right now” is vague. Is telemarketing inherently rude? I’d say no. Can people be rude while telemarketing? Of course. But people can be rude walking down the street. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/137 "2003-07-06T02:30:30Z")
I dunno. When I was a salesman, I left far more people with smiles than with frowns. People seem to be less rude in real life. Or maybe it was just me. ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/138 "2003-07-06T03:58:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Riboflavin \* > You explicitly said:“No, just that you get into a routine, walking from door to door, and occasionally miss some of the details, especially in the dark.” The ‘accident’ was that you were too lazy to read a damn sign before disturbing someone in their home. While you can try to lie about it being an ‘accident’, it’s clearly not something beyond your control but rather that you were unwilling to put forth the trivial effort to glance over for a sign before harassing someoen. So, are you saying that you never made a mistake? You’ve never overlooked something, you’ve never forgot anything or inconvienced someone? People screw up sometimes, and while we strive to do our best, an occassional mistake doesn’t make someone lazy. Sorry for the hijack, but this pushed a few buttons. Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/139 "2003-07-06T12:02:21Z")
\*\* > [@](#): > > Is telemarketing inherently rude? I’d say no. \*\* Well, perhaps we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Would you care to explain how you draw the line between what is rude and what isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![magog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/fbc32d/32.png) [@magog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magog)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541/140 "2003-07-06T13:34:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > Well, perhaps we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Would you care to explain how you draw the line between what is rude and what isn’t? Sure - I tend to look at rudeness as not following the standards of politeness and decorum. A secondary definition is not to make people uncomfortable. However, you can’t know what’s going to make someone uncomfortable all the time - if you say “How’s your dad fighting that cancer,” when he just died a week ago isn’t rude per se - you couldn’t have known. Asking that same question at the funeral on the other hand… Rude is like tall - there’s degrees and degrees. But door to door isn’t frowned upon in the areas I’m in. And you can’t know that someone doesn’t want door to door folks unless there’s a sign. And since a sign is a pretty easy investment (we have one - it cost a few dollars and 10 minutes to put it up), I figure anyone who doesn’t want d2d will put one up. I’m cool to agree to disagree - in one sense, we’re arguing about opinions, which is rather pointless. And I’ll turn the question back to you: what is rude to you (aside from telemarketers, that is)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reversal-of-the-door-to-door-salesman-rant/184541.md?page=8)