# Reverse American exceptionalism: dumber/more violent/etc. than other countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033 "2011-01-26T08:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/21 "2011-01-26T19:27:29Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Yeah. After they got done plunging Africa, Asia, and parts of the Western Hemisphere into a post-colonial morass that is, in many cases, still festering. Oh, and plunging the world into two global conflicts in which they poured out the lifeblood of whole generations of their best and brightest. But, yeah, they shed that behavior and replaced it with a smug feeling of “at least we’re better than those _Americans_.” I beleive that was an observation made by Alexis Tu Quoqueville. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/22 "2011-01-26T19:36:09Z")
> [@Ken001](#): > > The criticisms of the United States come from two perspectives IMHO: > > 1. Jealousy/envy at the wealth of the nation, coupled with resentment at US military and corporate incursions into other nations. > > 2. Disdain for the insular and unworldly perspectives of many Americans. You missed what I think are the two main sources: 1. The stereotypical “ugly American” tourist. You don’t notice the quiet, polite ones. 2. Media reporting the “only in America” stories\* which are filled with bizarre behaviour. Again, that’s because the stand-out stories sell, while “An Americna buy bought a pint of milk today!” doesn’t. \*Don’t worry, there are plenty of stories about all sorts of nationalities. But we’re talking about the America ones here. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/23 "2011-01-26T19:39:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s easy to get a sense of “exceptionalsim” when pretty much every person on earth wanted come here to live. human nature. I’m sure from the outside, many people have the reverse reaction. I think this says more about the domestic belief in “American exceptionalism” than the reality of the statistics. Namely that you, as an American, believe that “every person on earth wanted come here to live”. They didn’t; but that you believe that is a surefire indicator of the American exceptionalism belief. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/24 "2011-01-26T19:39:55Z")
Our population is like any other population. We just had a real strong period of gaining wealth and power. Our population was able to educate itself and take advantage of the chances. Now we have an unemployment problem. a bankruptcy problem, a foreclosure problem and lots of other problems. We did not get dumber, the chances to get ahead just dried up. The Chinese and Indians did not get smarter. they just were given opportunities that once were ours. It is a new world. We are not going to dominate it as a people. International corporations will. They will simply go wherever more money can be made. Our government is more violent than most. That is not an attitude problem but one of having the power necessary to take advantage of other weaker countries. Our politicians and leaders could not resist the lure of easy money and power. Exploitation is a problem throughout history. We keep hoping a country with great power will use its power to do good and make the world a better place. It has not happened yet. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/25 "2011-01-26T19:50:09Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I beleive that was an observation made by Alexis Tu Quoqueville. 😉 Nice. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/26 "2011-01-26T20:14:52Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > I beleive that was an observation made by Alexis Tu Quoqueville. 😉 Oh, that’s good. Very good! ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/27 "2011-01-26T21:48:08Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Further, no English speaking country can even begin to touch the corruption, bureaucracy and incompetence of Southern Europe. Is Louisiana considered to be an English speaking area? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/28 "2011-01-26T21:53:44Z")
I think there’s a certain lack of understanding on many foreigners’ part about the makeup of the US. Even though many of them come from Federal governments, I’m not at all sure that their states have nearly the level of autonomy about most things that the US states do. I’ve had people say things like “Why doesn’t your President just ban the death penalty?” and then are baffled when I say that he can’t and nor can the Congress, but that the Supreme Court probably could, but not ex cathedra, it’d have to be a case in Federal court that got appealed all the way up to them. I think that sometimes this makes us look weak or disorganized in their eyes, when it’s more a matter of decentralization. I think there’s a great deal of stereotyping on their part as well- not all Americans are fat, loud and ignorant any more than “all Italians smoke” or “all British have bad teeth” or “all French people are stinky and don’t bathe” or “Mexicans are lazy.” or even “Canadians are nice.” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/29 "2011-01-26T21:57:42Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Media reporting the “only in America” stories\* which are filled with bizarre behaviour. Again, that’s because the stand-out stories sell, while “An Americna buy bought a pint of milk today!” doesn’t. Sell? Heck, that one wouldn’t make it past the proofreader. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/30 "2011-01-26T21:58:34Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Certainly not dumber. I think this speaks for itself. Further, no English speaking country can even begin to touch the corruption, bureaucracy and incompetence of Southern Europe. Northern Europeans, Commonwealth folk and Americans do not understand how lucky it is to have a society where everything just _works_, and where things get done largely on time. I guess you must mean, no English-settled country, because I can make you a pretty long list of English speaking countries with corruption problems far greater than those of southern Europe, whatever southern Europe means. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/31 "2011-01-26T23:22:02Z")
Well as an Aussie I would say that due to the large size of your country and the volume of your fringes it does tend to paint you as a bunch of loud, red neck, fundamental christians or gangbagers. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/32 "2011-01-27T00:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=Capitaine Zombie] I guess you must mean, no English-settled country, because I can make you a pretty long list of English speaking countries with corruption problems far greater than those of southern Europe, whatever southern Europe means. [/QUOTE] If you don’t mind, I’d like to see that list. As for Southern Europe, here is a [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe) on it so that you can compare the relative corruption. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/33 "2011-01-27T01:19:34Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > If you don’t mind, I’d like to see that list. As for Southern Europe, here is a [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Europe) on it so that you can compare the relative corruption. > > -XT Type Africa. I’m sure wiki has made a page about that continent. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/34 "2011-01-27T02:02:51Z")
They do. ‘Africa’ is not a long list of countries, and doesn’t really constitute an answer on your part…more like a dodge. However, I’ll do the leg work for you. I assume you mean something like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_English_is_an_official_language). So…which countries represented as having English as their official language make up your ‘long list’? It’s not a trick question, merely asking you to back up what you said with a list as you said you could. Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. Admittedly, it’s a hijack, so if you want to let it drop that’s fine with me too. -XT ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/35 "2011-01-27T12:12:32Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > IIt’s not like South Africa, where you’re always on guard, and you live much of your life behind security gates and walls. Errm, no. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/36 "2011-01-27T15:06:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Errm, no. But you see, that’s the thing: what we HEAR abour the RSA in our radio stations is that someone installed flamethrowers in their car doors to foil carjackers, and people leap to conclusions. What people HEAR about America in our own media - never mind outside - is that fat machine-gun-toting Jesus-freak fans of Justin Bieber and Snooki are all bent up because the TV is interviewing Fred Phelps, PETA, anti-vaccinators, truthers and birthers in between stories of school board Zero Tolerance fuckups, sweet babies with pre-existing conditions being left to die, and gays want to get married. and they make their conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/37 "2011-01-27T15:40:01Z")
America is a country of extremes. Bit like India. Relative to the other G-8 states, our rich people are the richest, our fat people are the fattest, our athletes are the fastest, our dumb people are the dumbest, our smart people are the smartest, and our poor people are the most downtrodden. That’s why American exceptionalism _and_ reverse American exceptionalism are such popular narratives: they’re both true. We have Warren Buffet _and_ Snooki. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/38 "2011-01-27T15:51:13Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > I think there’s a belief, though, that: > > - Other developed nations are almost completely free of crime. (From what I’ve read, no convenient cite handy, European countries tend to have a much higher rate of property crime (car thefts, burglary, and the like) than the United States, and pickpocketing is also far more common. > > - The type and rate of violence encountered in distressed areas of American inner cities (e.g. Detroit) is typical for the country as a whole. > > if you grow up in a lower-middle class or wealthier household in the United States, crime really isn’t going to be that much of an issue in your life. It’s not like South Africa, where you’re always on guard, and you live much of your life behind security gates and walls. You may experience a bike theft or car break-in in your lifetime, but otherwise American cities, outside of places like the slums of Detroit and the like, are relatively safe. It depends on the crime. [http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crimestats6.php](http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crimestats6.php) For murder, major assault we have far more crime. For rape and various forms of theft we do not. Our incarceration rate isn’t listed in that chart, but it is far higher than most. > **[Countries Compared by Crime \> Prisoners \> Per capita. International...](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Crime/Prisoners/Per-capita)** > > Data for 2003. Number of prisoners held per 100,000 population. Crime is still a problem outside of the ghettos though. Murder isn’t nearly as common outside of the ghettos from what I can tell, but crimes like sexual assault, physical assault and theft seem like they’d occur just as often. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/39 "2011-01-28T00:48:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > our poor people are the most downtrodden. You think so? In what way? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/40 "2011-01-28T05:17:36Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > I think this says more about the domestic belief in “American exceptionalism” than the reality of the statistics. Namely that you, as an American, believe that “every person on earth wanted come here to live”. I like to say, “Having a nice house doesn’t make you a good neighbor”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=3)