# Reverse American exceptionalism: dumber/more violent/etc. than other countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033 "2011-01-26T08:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/61 "2011-01-29T01:49:02Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > You missed what I think are the two main sources: > > 1. The stereotypical “ugly American” tourist. You don’t notice the quiet, polite ones. > > 2. Media reporting the “only in America” stories\* which are filled with bizarre behaviour. Again, that’s because the stand-out stories sell, while “An America buy bought a pint of milk today!” doesn’t. > \*Don’t worry, there are plenty of stories about all sorts of nationalities. But we’re talking about the America ones here. If we only did not have Florida or Texas most of those stories would not take place in America. 😉 What is curious to me is that locally Americans also feed those stereotypes, but do so by concentrating on specific regions, one notorious example comes from the site FARK where Florida has even its own image tag to deal with so many crazy histories coming from there. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/62 "2011-01-29T04:47:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s a silly statement. People have been greedy as long as there have been possessions to be greedy about. Soldiers who sacked cities in ancient times were probably just a tad greedy. So were the people who enslaved others for cheap labor. Or levied crushing taxes. Or just plain bashed people on the head and robbed them. There’s nothing new about greed. There’s a significant difference. Greed used to be a sin. As such, yeah, human nature would occasionally burst out in a spree of theft, just the same as when you declare sex a sin, people don’t stop having sex, they just have _unprotected_ sex, see prostitutes more often, and otherwise end up going about the more negative variants of sex. Once it’s _okay_ to be greedy, you aren’t just responding to pent up urges in an bizarre and illogical way. You have the freedom to think, “Well what can I do that no one else can or will? If I do that, people will have to shower me with goodies.” Presto, instead of having theft, you have everyone performing services for everyone else, with the long-term goal of getting rich off everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/63 "2011-01-29T05:58:40Z")
From an outsider’s perspective: One thing which, rightly or wrongly-but-apparent-to-us-from-the-news seems generally true is that you guys have more than your share of religious whackaloons. Now, most every country on Earth has to deal with its share of religious extremists, but A) we don’t seem to elect them to positions of political power as often as you do and B) your whackaloons seems more out there than ours still. The European god squad tends to be mostly pro-life, clinging to traditions, maybe a bit of antisemitic/antiislamic hatred here and there, and of course an anti-gay, anti-sex agenda is par for the course. Your lot speak in tongues, believe in actual miracles, Satan is real and evolution isn’t, Good and Evil are actual real life concepts, going to the doctor is a sin, every single word of the Bible is the direct true word of God and/or God speaks to them directly & personally. And of course many of them can’t stop proselytizing all the time. This tends to weird us out a little. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/64 "2011-01-29T08:50:39Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > What **bump** meant is that indeed that the powers the Constitution grants the federal government are such _ **it can not just decree** _ an end to the death penalty\*\*\* as applied by the states\*\*\*. The national legislative and executive branches cannot just command the states to eliminate the death penalty. It could be ruled unconstitutional by the SC, but that can’t happen just on their own initiative but must result from a case (was once, then was reinstated), or there could be a constitutional amendment, but to pass that, the Constitution says Congress _ **needs the separate consent of 3/4ths of the states** _. So the constitution _ **does** _ --procedurally–preclude the Prez and Congress from just abolishing the Death Penalty. Or Sunday Closing laws for that matter. Thank you, I understand the point. The power to impose the death penalty resides with the legislature of each state and the Federal govt cannot unilaterally take that away. Hmm…must make for some interesting conflict of laws cases between state and federal. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/65 "2011-01-29T17:24:15Z")
Personally, I have only heard this “America Sucks!” routine from two sources: Fanatical terrorist groups and Americans. Normal foreigners? I suppose they could feel this way, but I’ve never met any who do. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/66 "2011-01-29T21:14:30Z")
You haven’t traveled much then is all I can say. There is a lot of ‘America Sucks!’ mentality out there in the wide world, and a lot of folks who think that way. Mostly I hear something along the lines of ‘America sucks, but I like some Americans. I even have this American friend who is ok…’. The broad anti-American protests don’t happen as much in Europe or places like South Korea as much today as they did in the past, but there is still a broad based dislike of the US out there. The other side of the coin is that there are more folks who like America and (some) Americans out there as well, so it balances out. When I travel it’s pretty rare that I’ll encounter someone (even in a country who might not be all that friendly, at the official or supposed population level) who automatically dislikes me simply because I’m an American (as opposed to disliking me because, well, I’m not very likable)…while I have encountered plenty of folks who seem friendly simply because I’m an American. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/67 "2011-01-29T23:24:59Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Your lot **speak in tongues** , believe in actual miracles, Satan is real and evolution isn’t, Good and Evil are actual real life concepts, **going to the doctor is a sin** , every single word of the Bible is the direct true word of God and/or **God speaks to them directly & personally**. And of course many of them can’t stop proselytizing all the time. > > This tends to weird us out a little. Well just to clear up some misconceptions about us crazy Americans, only a very tiny percentage of Christians do or believe in the bolded items. Sadly, the other items are a fair cop. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/68 "2011-01-29T23:33:01Z")
As if those sorts of things don’t happen in enlightened Europe. 😛 Rural Europeans aren’t all that different than rural Americans when it comes to this sort of superstitious nonsense. America doesn’t have a monopoly on anti-Evolution thinking or fervent religious fundamentalism. -XT ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/69 "2011-02-02T04:21:43Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > From an outsider’s perspective: > > One thing which, rightly or wrongly-but-apparent-to-us-from-the-news seems generally true is that you guys have more than your share of religious whackaloons. Sure we do… but historically, where’d they come from? We were one of the first religiously tolerant (more or less) places in the world, so religious whackaloons came here to live. Combine that with the usual mutation and yeast like budding of religious loon groups, and that would explain it. Plus, we’re a big country- 300 some odd million people, and we’re diverse. More diverse probably than most other countries. This makes for a lot of weirdness and disunity when seen by more monolithic countries like say… Italy, where probably 95% of people are ethnic Italians(of some kind). We’re also a young country- I can completely see how things we do might seem weird if you have 1000+ years of tradition and history behind you. We have 500 at most, and half of the country has about 160-180. ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/70 "2011-02-02T04:55:12Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > As if those sorts of things don’t happen in enlightened Europe. 😛 Rural Europeans aren’t all that different than rural Americans when it comes to this sort of superstitious nonsense. America doesn’t have a monopoly on anti-Evolution thinking or fervent religious fundamentalism. > > -XT While they do happen, they happen to a greater extent, I believe, in the US. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > However, the percentage of people in the USA who accept the idea of evolution declined from 45% in 1985, to 40% in 2005. > [@Wikipedia](#): > > Most vocal strict creationists are from the United States, and strict creationist views are much less common in other developed countries. According to a study published in Science, a survey of the United States, Turkey, Japan and Europe showed that public acceptance of evolution is most prevalent in Iceland, Denmark and Sweden at 80% of the population. Some eastern European countries, such as Latvia and Bulgaria, have similar results as the US, although not so bad. Turkey was worse off in the Wiki graphic, so there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/71 "2011-02-02T06:05:56Z")
I’m always wary of those kinds of polls. And by the same token, I’m unsure about how well polled rural Europeans are. I can say that, based on some of the polls I’ve seen about Europeans believing some of the truther type non-sense about 9/11, that I wouldn’t be surprised if a higher percentage than is generally accepted (on this board anyway) believe all manner of odd stuff. A lot of folks seem to think that Europeans are some sort of secular intellectuals, without realizing that ‘Europe’ is actually a very large and diverse place, and that there are rural regions in just about every country that has the same levels of ignorance and superstition that any rural community, regardless of country has. My belief is that US ignorance is spotlighted because, well, we are America…we are constantly under a microscope and spotlight. So, when we have polls showing dippy stuff it’s more sensational than, say, a poll about folks in Bavaria who believe superstitious non-sense. From what I’ve seen, ignorance is pretty universal, and you will most assuredly find it in every nation on earth. Nations with larger rural populations are going to have more ingrained ignorance and old fashioned notions concerning science and religion…and the US still has a fairly large rural population. If you really asked people in rural Europe, however, you would get similar answers. Just like if you asked folks in Rural Japan, or rural Canada, or rural South Korea. And you don’t even want to know what sorts of things you’d get from the huge rural Chinese population… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/72 "2011-02-02T06:32:01Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Your lot speak in tongues, believe in actual miracles, Satan is real and evolution isn’t, Good and Evil are actual real life concepts, going to the doctor is a sin, every single word of the Bible is the direct true word of God and/or God speaks to them directly & personally. And of course many of them can’t stop proselytizing all the time. I’m an atheist and I think good and evil are real life concepts. What’s whackadoodle about that? ---
**Author:** ![Dave\_Hartwick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@Dave\_Hartwick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave_Hartwick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/73 "2011-02-02T06:54:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m always wary of those kinds of polls. Do you know of any reason I should be wary of these particular numbers? Can you provide evidence that rural Europeans were left out, and really are more likely than Americans to disbelieve evolution? Here’s the [article](http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9786-why-doesnt-america-believe-in-evolution.html) Wiki used for a cite. > [@](#): > > I can say that, based on some of the polls I’ve seen about Europeans believing some of the truther type non-sense about 9/11, that I wouldn’t be surprised if a higher percentage than is generally accepted (on this board anyway) believe all manner of odd stuff. Oh, yes. Europeans are prey to superstition, same as everyone. But nowhere in Europe, that I know of, anyway, is teaching Creationism in public schools even an issue, let alone done. > [@](#): > > A lot of folks seem to think that Europeans are some sort of secular intellectuals, without realizing that ‘Europe’ is actually a very large and diverse place, and that there are rural regions in just about every country that has the same levels of ignorance and superstition that any rural community, regardless of country has. What sort of folks? Americans who are ignorant of the rest of the world? Because that’s a common stereotype, too. Or is it the Europeans who think that? “We Latvians believe we are secular intellectuals who are exactly the same as Swedes.” > [@](#): > > My belief is that US ignorance is spotlighted because, well, we are America…we are constantly under a microscope and spotlight. So, when we have polls showing dippy stuff it’s more sensational than, say, a poll about folks in Bavaria who believe superstitious non-sense. I think American ignorance, especially on the subject of evolution, gets too much of a pass sometimes. That aside, people like Richard Dawkins will go after the ignorant from time to time, and not just pick on the poor Yanks. He can find superstition just fine in Europe. But, as I pointed out earlier, nowhere in Europe do governments occasionally approve teaching complete horseshit in public schools to appease religious dumbfucks. > [@](#): > > From what I’ve seen, ignorance is pretty universal, and you will most assuredly find it in every nation on earth. Nations with larger rural populations are going to have more ingrained ignorance and old fashioned notions concerning science and religion…and the US still has a fairly large rural population. If you really asked people in rural Europe, however, you would get similar answers. Just like if you asked folks in Rural Japan, or rural Canada, or rural South Korea. And you don’t even want to know what sorts of things you’d get from the huge rural Chinese population… Seems like you’re setting the bar a little low here: “our peasants are no more ignorant than the peasants in other countries, especially if you look at the really backward ones.” IMO, yes, American ignorance does get highlighted sometimes, often by American media. The interviews Jay Leno used to do, for instance, where he’d go out and find some unworldly, culturally illiterate people such as recent college grads, and ask them basic science questions, which they would tank. Or that show COPS, which frequently shows the most ignorant people you’d ever want to meet. But these things resonate because they seem strange. Why is it that the country with the coolest space program has bozo politicians like Sarah Palin? Why does the country that got all the good Nazi scientists produce TV shows like Medium and Ghost Whisperer? Why does one of the biggest, richest, countries in the world inflict Generation Rescue upon the world? It’s stupid, and I wish it would stop. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/74 "2011-02-02T08:21:06Z")
Americans are far from “exceptional” in their “exceptionalism”. An anecdote which may or may not be relevant: Every time a miner was rescued during that whole thing in Chile a few months back, what did the crowd (of other miners, and others) shout? “Hooray?” No, they invariably chanted “Chi – Chi – Chi – le – le --le”! I couldnt believe my ears. What in the world did the nation-state whose borders happened to encircle the mine have to do with ANYTHING? I chalked it up to these particular folks seeing an opportunity to celebrate their COUNTRY (they could have focused on any of a list of things) while the world’s media was briefly tuned to them (as it is so rarely in that, and many other, parts of the world.) In other words, Americans seem (to some) to toot their horns more than others, but that’s partly because, as the source of much of the world’s media and as the biggest power these days in some ways, they simply have more opportunities to do so. In fact, by REFRAINING to do so (IMHO) more often than they COULD, they actually wind up subtley emphasizing the point – they don’t NEED to toot their horn, because it’s so obvious that they’re the best, etc. etc. Anyway, others have pointed out they factual ways in which the US happens to be an outlier, or at least on a short list of outliers, for many variables, good or bad, at this point in history (but probably not for much longer!). I’d like to mention two things: 1. A bigger question, to me, is why people everywhere, not just in the US, like to emphasize the “sovereign state” (i.e., “country”) as the geographic scale to which they show the most allegiance and to which they ascribe the most distinctive characteristics (I understand, pretty much, historically how this came to be, but I guess I just lament its overpowering presence), and 2. Related to #1: Whenever we talk about anyone claiming “exceptionalism”, it’s important to try to distinguish if they mean in the spirit of: – “statistical facts, and (when those facts happen to be in favor of the place I live), how lucky I am to happen to have been born here (or found my way here) - something that shouldn’t be a matter of personal pride” – OR is it – “God-given virtues to my country which I personally exemplify, and which I heartily deserve.” ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/75 "2011-02-02T11:11:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > [Quote=elmwood] > > IIt’s not like South Africa, where you’re always on guard, and you live much of your life behind security gates and walls. Errm, no. [/QUOTE] Errm, yes. Well, at least in the case of some friends who moved to the US from South Africa. When asked the biggest difference between life in the two countries, he responded words to the effect of “in the US you do not have to live much of your life behind security gates and walls”. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/76 "2011-02-02T20:54:53Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Americans are far from “exceptional” in their “exceptionalism”. An anecdote which may or may not be relevant: Every time a miner was rescued during that whole thing in Chile a few months back, what did the crowd (of other miners, and others) shout? “Hooray?” No, they invariably chanted “Chi – Chi – Chi – le – le --le”! I couldnt believe my ears. What in the world did the nation-state whose borders happened to encircle the mine have to do with ANYTHING? > > I chalked it up to these particular folks seeing an opportunity to celebrate their COUNTRY (they could have focused on any of a list of things) while the world’s media was briefly tuned to them (as it is so rarely in that, and many other, parts of the world.) > > In other words, Americans seem (to some) to toot their horns more than others, but that’s partly because, as the source of much of the world’s media and as the biggest power these days in some ways, they simply have more opportunities to do so. In fact, by REFRAINING to do so (IMHO) more often than they COULD, they actually wind up subtley emphasizing the point – they don’t NEED to toot their horn, because it’s so obvious that they’re the best, etc. etc. > > Anyway, others have pointed out they factual ways in which the US happens to be an outlier, or at least on a short list of outliers, for many variables, good or bad, at this point in history (but probably not for much longer!). > > I’d like to mention two things: > > 1. A bigger question, to me, is why people everywhere, not just in the US, like to emphasize the “sovereign state” (i.e., “country”) as the geographic scale to which they show the most allegiance and to which they ascribe the most distinctive characteristics (I understand, pretty much, historically how this came to be, but I guess I just lament its overpowering presence), and > > 2. Related to #1: Whenever we talk about anyone claiming “exceptionalism”, it’s important to try to distinguish if they mean in the spirit of: > > – “statistical facts, and (when those facts happen to be in favor of the place I live), how lucky I am to happen to have been born here (or found my way here) - something that shouldn’t be a matter of personal pride” – OR is it > > – “God-given virtues to my country which I personally exemplify, and which I heartily deserve.” People talk about Americans being flag-wavers, but in all my travels I never saw so many flags as when I was in Switzerland. There’s a Swiss flag from practically every window in that country. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/77 "2011-02-02T22:11:20Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Errm, yes. Well, at least in the case of some friends who moved to the US from South Africa. When asked the biggest difference between life in the two countries, he responded words to the effect of “in the US you do not have to live much of your life behind security gates and walls”. Right. Because your friends’ experience is representative of life in _all_ of South Africa. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/78 "2011-02-02T22:17:33Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Right. Because your friends’ experience is representative of life in _all_ of South Africa. > :rolleyes: Nowhere did I say it was all - quite the contrary. However, it was the norm (for white folk) where he lived (Durban). I know that Capetown is generally much safer, but have heard bad things about Johannesburg from other fleeing ex-residents and people who have visited. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/79 "2011-02-02T23:47:50Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Nowhere did I say it was all - quite the contrary […] Then why are you disagreeing with someone ( **MrDibble** )–and I quote: [QUOTE=amarone] Errm, yes. [/QUOTE] –who is taking pains to point out that not all living areas of South Africa are riddled with crime? **elmwood** stated unequivocally that in South Africa, one has to be “always on guard”. **MrDibble** rightfully called bullshit on that. You then disagreed with **MrDibble** (“Errm, yes”). Now you’re saying that you were actually agreeing (“quite the contrary”) with **MrDibble**? How does _THAT_ work? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/80 "2011-02-03T00:19:31Z")
**MrDribble** who is, by the way, a South African citizen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=5)