# Reverse American exceptionalism: dumber/more violent/etc. than other countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033 "2011-01-26T08:36:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/81 "2011-02-04T01:44:10Z")
Well a couple of problems: -A complete illogical fear of nuclear power, ie: “OH will somebody please think of the children!” I hate it when they do it to b\*\*\*\* about _Harry Potter_ but to block our energy independence from Wahhabists and Iranians and when the French and other European and East Asian nations have been applying it successfully and when Chernobyl’s just an example of Soviet incompetence not the danger of all nuclear power plants makes we want to vomit. -Our half-century outdated railsystem. We don’t have any high-speed rail which every other First World nation has built. Come on it was the US who built the Transcontinental Railroad! -Our “abortion on demand” laws. Look at Ireland or Poland or Chile at least they have somewhat moral abortion laws. Even Germany at least requires consueling before mothers go to the doc for a nice little abortion. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/82 "2011-02-04T01:53:14Z")
That religious people don’t like abortion is no reason to outlaw it. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/83 "2011-02-04T01:56:40Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > That religious people don’t like abortion is no reason to outlaw it. At all. Of course not. The problem is that abortion is murder. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/84 "2011-02-04T02:13:55Z")
“OH will somebody please think of the children!” I hate it when they do that. Spare me your attempts at emotional blackmail. It isn’t really murder, you just call it that because you don’t like it. Again, the fact the religious right doesn’t like something is no reason to outlaw it. At all. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/85 "2011-02-04T02:19:08Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > “OH will somebody please think of the children!” I hate it when they do that. Spare me your attempts at emotional blackmail. It isn’t really murder, you just call it that because you don’t like it. Again, the fact the religious right doesn’t like something is no reason to outlaw it. At all. Do you draw a line on abortion-ie at second or third trimester? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/86 "2011-02-04T02:22:15Z")
I don’t draw the line. It’s not my business, it’s not my body, and it’s not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/87 "2011-02-04T03:42:13Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Of course not. The problem is that abortion is murder. Polite suggestion: Go start a different GD thread along those lines. If you start that shit here, this thread will go to hell in a matter of seconds. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/88 "2011-02-04T04:13:32Z")
> [@Cyningablod](#): > > Polite suggestion: Go start a different GD thread along those lines. If you start that shit here, this thread will go to hell in a matter of seconds. It was the **Tooth** who started debating abortion not me. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/89 "2011-02-04T04:27:57Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It was the **Tooth** who started debating abortion not me. You’re the one who brought it up. Which you did while pretending that you can define morality universally. You expected no one to chafe at such a baldly needling comment? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/90 "2011-02-04T04:41:30Z")
I wasn’t debating anything, I was stating a fact. If it makes you feel better, we’re pretty much on the same side regarding the safety of nuclear power plants. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/91 "2011-02-04T06:48:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > We were one of the first religiously tolerant (more or less) places in the world No, you weren’t. Lots of places were before you, often 1000s of years before your country was even dreamed of. It’s this kind of thinking that leads to American exceptionalism. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/92 "2011-02-04T06:54:11Z")
> [@amarone](#): > > Errm, yes. Well, at least in the case of some friends **who moved to the US from South Africa**. When asked the biggest difference between life in the two countries, he responded words to the effect of “in the US you do not have to live much of your life behind security gates and walls”. Bolded bit always makes me go :dubious:. When did they move? Are they White? Did they live in Johannesburg? While I do have a security gate (and I would anywhere in the world I lived, as long as I had a TV and computer ), I don’t huddle behind it in the slightest. Tell me, how do the rich in, say, Beverley Hills, live? Do \*they \*have those classic American suburban homes with no front fence, lawns right to the pavement? Or do they have “gates and walls” too? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/93 "2011-02-04T07:00:17Z")
Too late to edit - I see they were in Durban. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/94 "2011-02-04T07:38:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Tell me, how do the rich in, say, Beverley Hills, live? Do \*they \*have those classic American suburban homes with no front fence, lawns right to the pavement? Or do they have “gates and walls” too? FWIW, a lot of the homes in Beverly Hills have open lawns, no fences and driveways right to the street. The lawns are large and the houses are set further back from the street than is the case with typical suburban houses, but they are surprisingly accessible. Some of these houses once belonged to old time Hollywood stars like Jack Benny, George Burns and Lucille Ball, and they are surprisingly modest. Just nice but not lavish two story houses. But there are mansions with electronic gates hidden behind walls and foliage too. On my trips to LA I’ve found that the more guarded, expensive and hidden away homes are more prevalent in Bel Air and up in the hills. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/95 "2011-02-04T10:09:12Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Americans are far from “exceptional” in their “exceptionalism”. An anecdote which may or may not be relevant: Every time a miner was rescued during that whole thing in Chile a few months back, what did the crowd (of other miners, and others) shout? “Hooray?” No, they invariably chanted “Chi – Chi – Chi – le – le --le”! I couldnt believe my ears. What in the world did the nation-state whose borders happened to encircle the mine have to do with ANYTHING? That’s not exceptionalism, exceptionalism would be someone saying “only in Chile!” It’s jingoism. As for **xt** ’s references to superstition and ignorance existing all over the world and keeping it short: what seems to be exceptional about the US is how many of the creationists, flat-earthers or people who think that New Mexico is part of Mexico over there are college-educated or have graduate degrees, and how tightly they embrace their ignorance. I’ve lived in Europe a total of 36 years, in the US for 5, in Latin American for 1: in Europe (admittedly Western Europe and usually middle-class), I’ve met one person who believed that the moon landings were faked, and I healed him of that notion right fast. In the US I met several (4 or 5) and they simply refused to hear any arguments to the contrary; all of them were college graduates. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/96 "2011-02-04T15:47:50Z")
Maybe this is outside the scope of this thread, but could the commonness of American conspiracy theorists be because our government exceptionally HAS participated in conspiracies? Tuskegee experiments, Iran Contra, etc. Don’t get me wrong, moon landing hoax has been debunked and any reasonable person who has seen the explanations know we landed on the moon. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/97 "2011-02-04T16:51:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Of course not. The problem is that abortion is murder. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/98 "2011-02-04T17:20:18Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > -Our half-century outdated railsystem. We don’t have any high-speed rail which every other First World nation has built. Come on it was the US who built the Transcontinental Railroad! Actually, it was mostly the Chinese and the Irish. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/99 "2011-02-04T18:32:06Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > That’s not exceptionalism, exceptionalism would be someone saying “only in Chile!” It’s jingoism. I thought only Americans could be jingoistic, you know, like only white people can be racist. When other countries do the same thing, it’s “expressing national pride” or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Cyningablod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Cyningablod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyningablod)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033/100 "2011-02-04T18:49:42Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > I wasn’t debating anything, I was stating a fact. […] Would this “fact” be that “abortion is murder”? Please provide solid evidence that this is a fact, and not just an opinion. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-american-exceptionalism-dumber-more-violent-etc-than-other-countries/569033.md?page=6)