# "Reverse Misogyny", e.g. in Killing Eve **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 13, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345 "2020-01-13T11:37:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/1 "2020-01-13T11:37:21Z")
What do y’all think of _Killing Eve_? I watched Season 1, didn’t like it enough to watch Season 2. But with my TV queue empty I watched Season 2. Can’t decide whether I like it or not. I think not. But mentioning _Killing Eve_ is just my excuse to post the following question/comment in Cafe Society. I didn’t know whether GD or IMHO was best suited, but the theme I describe may be a Hollywood invention more than reality, so I’ll post here. In one of the final _Killing Eve_ episodes. Eve plops into bed with a young man (who had not been particularly “coming on” to her), more or less insisting that he f\*\*k her. In the morning, when the guy wants to cuddle and discuss their relationship, she’s indifferent and orders him to fetch coffee. Had the genders been reversed, I think this would be a shocking example of misogyny. Viewers would be outraged to see the hero depicted as so callous toward a woman. But when female Eve does this, I think we’re supposed to admire her — she’s “tough” like a man. I don’t think this episode of _Killing Eve_ is unique — other movies and TV dramas present similar scenarios. Am I interpreting this correctly? What do others think? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/2 "2020-01-13T12:03:00Z")
1.) I have watched the first two seasons of Killing Eve, but am pretty “meh” about it. It is a decent way to kill time, but nothing about it doesn’t seem like generic “spies and multiple levels of conspiracy” stuff. 2.) You know, there is a term for the opposite of misogyny–misterogyny. Nothing about _Killing Eve_ ever struck me as misterogynistic. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/3 "2020-01-13T12:27:38Z")
(Google showed me ‘misandry’ as a role-reversed misogyny, but using that obscure word might confuse my question.) > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > … Nothing about _Killing Eve_ ever struck me as misterogynistic. Mods: Please change thread title to ‘“Reverse Misogyny” from Hollywood, using a single specific scene in _Killing Eve_ as an example.’ ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/4 "2020-01-13T12:46:18Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > 2.) You know, there is a term for the opposite of misogyny–misterogyny. Nothing about _Killing Eve_ ever struck me as misterogynistic. Is that really a cutesy term in use, or just a little joke? I know “misandry,” though – I thought it was a reasonably common term, at least among people like SDMB readers (apparently, it shows up 161 times on a Google search of the board., though our search engine gives 183 hits.) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/5 "2020-01-13T12:50:24Z")
I disagree. Sexist, yes; “man-hating”, no. I think the tendency these days is to throw around the word “misogyny” a little too loosely. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/6 "2020-01-13T12:51:04Z")
If this show were meant to be taken seriously I could see he OP’s point. It’s almost a send up of conventional spy thrillers where the protagonist is a man. How many times did we see James Bond dismiss or otherwise disrespect his female play things? I think we must also consider the voice behind it, that of Phoebe Waller Bridge. She is a writer with [del]absolutely no [/del] very few boundaries. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/7 "2020-01-13T12:54:41Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Mods: Please change thread title to’“Reverse Misogyny” from Hollywood, using a single specific scene in _Killing Eve_ as an example.’ _Killing Eve_ isn’t from Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/8 "2020-01-13T13:19:12Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > If this show were meant to be taken seriously I could see he OP’s point. It’s almost a send up of conventional spy thrillers where the protagonist is a man. How many times did we see James Bond dismiss or otherwise disrespect his female play things? I think we must also consider the voice behind it, that of Phoebe Waller Bridge. She is a writer with [del]absolutely no [/del] very few boundaries. Talking of which, I can’t WAIT to see the new Bond film, where she’s been brought in to liven up the script. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/9 "2020-01-13T13:21:33Z")
She’s a sociopath. Male or female, a major character like that in a show like this is going to do a _lot of bad things_. Singling out attitude towards the opposite (in this case) gender misses the point. It’s like having a major beef with Norman Bates doing taxidermy. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/10 "2020-01-13T13:26:52Z")
I don’t think it was intended to be “admirable”. And Phoebe Waller Bridge wrote season one but not two. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/11 "2020-01-13T13:39:12Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Eve plops into bed with a young man (who had not been particularly “coming on” to her), more or less insisting that he f\*\*k her. In the morning, when the guy wants to cuddle and discuss their relationship, she’s indifferent and orders him to fetch coffee. > > Had the genders been reversed, I think this would be a shocking example of misogyny. I disagree. An example of “being a jerk” or insensitivity or rudeness, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/12 "2020-01-13T14:00:33Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Had the genders been reversed, I think this would be a shocking example of misogyny. Do you? Really? _Shocking_, you say? I don’t know, the commonplace is hardly shocking anymore. You don’t think that’s precisely why a scene like that was included? ---
**Author:** ![Calavera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calavera/32/70_2.png) [@Calavera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calavera)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/13 "2020-01-13T14:05:58Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > She’s a sociopath. Male or female, a major character like that in a show like this is going to do a _lot of bad things_. Singling out attitude towards the opposite (in this case) gender misses the point. > > It’s like having a major beef with Norman Bates doing taxidermy. Villanelle is the sociopath, Eve is the detective. It’s been a while since I saw this and don’t remember the scene but I expect **septimus** didn’t misspeak when he said “Eve” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/14 "2020-01-13T15:04:14Z")
> [@Calavera](#): > > Villanelle is the sociopath, Eve is the detective. It’s been a while since I saw this and don’t remember the scene but I expect **septimus** didn’t misspeak when he said “Eve” Yes. Villanelle might have tortured the guy upside-down, rather than just sending him out for coffee. But — remember the ambiguous title _Killing Eve_ — Eve has “gone through some changes;” is she becoming -pathic herself? Is her relationship with Villanelle just hate-hate, or is it Love-Hate? In the relevant episodeShortly after sending her lover out for coffee, she finds him stabbed and bleeding and in need of urgent medical care. She makes small effort to help, and ends up chasing the bad guy without calling 9-1-1 (or rather its Roman equivalent) . But this is all tangential to my thread’s purpose, which was predicated on the assumption that _**Female dominance episodes (using the Killing Eve example ONLY for clarity), are commonplace nowadays in movies and TV.**_ _Is my assumption even true?_ Can others help me think of examples OTHER than _Killing Eve_ where such scenario(s) are present? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/15 "2020-01-13T15:07:54Z")
Male Fragility. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/16 "2020-01-13T15:20:18Z")
I won’t dispute that female dominance is more common in media now than it used to be. But I would suspect that it’s still less common than male dominance. We just don’t notice the male dominance, because we’re so used to it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/17 "2020-01-13T15:46:20Z")
Yes. I’m wondering what “message” if any the scriptwriters are sending. I also wonder about viewers’ attitudes about the scenes. Can we all agree that some simple {Man == Woman} equivalences fail categorically? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/18 "2020-01-13T16:44:24Z")
Say what? It’s a classic case of reversing the normal male-dominated practice. So rather than being reverse-sexism, it is intended to shine a light on classic sexist tropes itself. She’s acting as a male might in plenty of movies/television. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/19 "2020-01-13T17:12:56Z")
In this example anyway yes part of the point is that Eve is something-pathic herself. She was using him basically as a … tool … while she was being turned on listening to a sociopathic killer of her fantasies. Do some shows make an effort to subvert the classic trope by reversing roles. I’d bet yes but don’t have any offhand. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345/20 "2020-01-13T21:21:23Z")
“Misterogyny” is _hilarious_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/reverse-misogyny-e-g-in-killing-eve/846345.md?page=2)