# Revised man, bear, woods discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499 "2024-05-13T17:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/83 "2024-05-15T20:22:42Z")
Really? Because it was pretty clear to me what the point was. It reminds me of the Black Lives Matter thing – some people just refused to get it, but it was immediately clear to me what the point was. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/85 "2024-05-15T20:31:19Z")
> [@SyncoSmalls](#): > > The hypothetical has blown up because it is being taken too seriously, **by both sides**. Wow. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/86 "2024-05-15T20:38:41Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Really? Because it was pretty clear to me what the point was. The point was immediately clear to me, too. It was also immediately clear to me that the point was being made in a stupid, distracting, counterproductive way. And when a point is being made in a stupid, distracting, and counterproductive way, it bugs me no end when the stupidity is glossed over. Because it makes the underlying point seem insincere. Yes, women have a right to be wary of men. That’s a very important fact that all men should be aware of. No, the average guy plucked off the sidewalk is, in all likelihood, _not_ more dangerous than the 800lb killing machine with claws that could rip through the hood of a car, and the more you insist that he is the more you trivialise the point you’re trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/88 "2024-05-15T20:41:59Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > If women want men to learn from…whatever this is, they should make their point in a way which doesn’t invite correction and ridicule. The fact that you want to “correct” and ridicule women over it is why women are so often appropriately sick to death of dealing with men. Women would rather bump into a bear than you because the bear is most likely going to leave her alone, and you would try to “educate” her on the right way to adjust her pack and hold her trekking poles and then call her a bitch when she wasn’t nice enough to you for helping. ETA: The bear is a momentary worry, YOU have ruined her entire day. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/89 "2024-05-15T20:51:57Z")
I’ve been discussing this with a close friend of mine. She’s a 30 year old, very intelligent and rational PhD candidate. To quote her: “If most women’s gut reaction is men, isn’t that scary to realize how fucking afraid of men women are? But instead it’s just mansplaining to women why they’re wrong rather than being horrified by the fear we have of men“ ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/90 "2024-05-15T20:57:35Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > The fact that you want to “correct” and ridicule women over it is why women are so often appropriately sick to death of dealing with men. When someone says something completely ridiculous, like the idea that the average man is factually as dangerous as a wild bear, then if they get ridiculed it’s on them. If they get corrected it’s on them. If the point they’re trying to make is obscured by the stupidity of its framing then, no matter how valid that point may be, the fact it’s been obscured is on them. It’s not on the person pointing out the stupidity of the original framing. I’m tired of people making this point - this _important_ point - in this deeply stupid way and then whining about people “not getting it”. No! Make your fucking point properly! > [@](#): > > Women would rather bump into a bear than you because the bear is most likely going to leave her alone, and you would try to “educate” her on the right way to adjust her pack and hold her trekking poles and then call her a bitch when she wasn’t nice enough to you for helping. The average man isn’t going to do any of those things. The statements “Women have a right to be wary of men” and “The average man is less dangerous than a goddamn bear” are _not_ contradictory. Using such absurd claims to make your point only ensures that you _fail make your point_. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/91 "2024-05-15T21:00:59Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > “If most women’s gut reaction is men, isn’t that scary to realize how fucking afraid of men women are? But instead it’s just mansplaining to women why they’re wrong rather than being horrified by the fear we have of men“ I love the juxtaposition of this post with the one immediately under it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/92 "2024-05-15T21:06:23Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/93 "2024-05-22T16:25:44Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [SyncoSmalls trocking thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/syncosmalls-trocking-thread/1001913/113) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/94 "2024-05-15T21:23:34Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > I love the juxtaposition of this post with the one immediately under it. Haha! Pretty perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/95 "2024-05-15T21:35:00Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I think most people are thinking black bear or at worst grizzly. I could easily be wrong, but I suspect that you’re overestimating the average person’s bear knowledge, and that many people don’t even know what different kinds of bears exist, let alone what threat levels they pose. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/96 "2024-05-15T21:43:55Z")
I will admit that over the course of this debate, I learned much more about bears than I did about men. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/97 "2024-05-15T22:45:36Z")
People are willing to discuss one and not the other. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/98 "2024-05-16T00:26:15Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > When someone says something completely ridiculous, like the idea that the average man is factually as dangerous as a wild bear Which of those species has in most areas been wiped out by the other? ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/99 "2024-05-16T06:08:02Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Which of those species has in most areas been wiped out by the other? You and I both know that’s not the _kind_ of dangerous I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/100 "2024-05-16T11:54:25Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > When someone says something completely ridiculous, like the idea that the average man is factually as dangerous as a wild bear, then if they get ridiculed it’s on them. [Bear.org](https://bear.org/bear-facts/how-dangerous-are-black-bears/) > [@](#): > > The 750,000 black bears of North America kill less than one person per year on the average, while men ages 18-24 are 167 times more likely to kill someone than a black bear. Care to guess how many people per year get murdered on hiking trails vs. get killed by bears on hiking trails? I’d be shocked if the ratio were less than 10:1. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/101 "2024-05-16T12:09:28Z")
750,000 multiplied by 167 = 125,250,000, which is fewer than the number of men in the US; so it’s mostly just the fact that there’s a lot more men than bears. Also pushing the idea that bears are harmless is how you get people deciding to pet the cute bear cub and getting mauled. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/102 "2024-05-16T12:14:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Also pushing the idea that bears are harmless is how you get people deciding to pet the cute bear cub and getting mauled. No body is pushing this, so drop the off-topic strawman hijack immediately. **MODERATING** ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/103 "2024-05-16T12:26:13Z")
> [@WalterBishop](#): > > > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > > > Which of those species has in most areas been wiped out by the other? > > You and I both know that’s not the _kind_ of dangerous I’m talking about. And that’s why you are missing the point. Because you are willfully blind to more important dimensions of danger. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/104 "2024-05-16T12:27:38Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > 750,000 multiplied by 167 = 125,250,000, which is fewer than the number of men in the US; so it’s mostly just the fact that there’s a lot more men than bears. Let’s try the math again. 750,000 bears kill \<1 person per year 165,000,000 men kill about 20,000 people per year. If men (of all ages) killed people at the same rate as black bears, the US would have 220 murders per year. Anyway, the point isn’t about acktually getting the math just right, it’s about the fact that women fear being alone with strange men. Because she won’t know if that man is a black bear who will run away, a brown bear who might become violent, or a polar bear who sees her as prey. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499.md?page=6)