# Revised man, bear, woods discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 13, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499 "2024-05-13T17:40:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/125 "2024-05-18T02:07:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For that matter if somebody actually thinks like that then _they_ shouldn’t try for a relationship with men, they should be living in some heavily armed single-gender enclave somewhere. Or as a hermit if they’re male. Wait. What? Did we read the same article? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/126 "2024-05-18T02:42:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I read it and felt pretty good about my typical behavior. Yeah, that article didn’t strike me as advocating “hermit” or “heavily armed single-gender enclave” existence for anybody. ISTM that its basic admonitions were these: All sounds pretty eminently reasonable to me, neither paranoid nor misandrist. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/127 "2024-05-18T03:20:16Z")
Was that public domain? Because I believe you greatly exceeded the fair use. I removed the non-attributed quote in the meantime. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/128 "2024-05-18T04:46:37Z")
Whoa! Sorry about that, didn’t intend any fair-use violation. I don’t know whether this text is in fact freely distributable. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/129 "2024-05-18T05:34:40Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wait. What? > > Did we read the same article? That was my reaction too. Since @Der_Trihs said “I read it years ago,” it may _not_ be the same article. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/130 "2024-05-18T09:39:12Z")
I confess I find this entire discussion very confusing. It seems to overlook the obvious. Bears kill hardly any women statistically. Whereas men are a major cause of death for women. How is that not enough to explain why so many opted for the bear? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/131 "2024-05-18T11:46:05Z")
Because men don’t want that to be the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/132 "2024-05-18T11:56:49Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > That was my reaction too. Since @Der_Trihs said “I read it years ago,” it may _not_ be the same article. The article linked in the OP was written years ago. It’s a good explanation of why women tend to choose “bear” in the much more recent hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/133 "2024-05-18T12:10:52Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I confess I find this entire discussion very confusing. It seems to overlook the obvious. > > Bears kill hardly any women statistically. Whereas men are a major cause of death for women. > > How is that not enough to explain why so many opted for the bear? As pointed out in the previous, closed thread, there is the base rate to consider. T-rexes kill even fewer women statistically. Which would you rather meet: a bear or a T-rex? That’s if you’re asking why a dry, emotionless statistical analysis doesn’t easily settle the question in favor of the bear. But of course people are responding to the question from points of view other than a dry statistical analysis. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/134 "2024-05-18T12:25:33Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Bears kill hardly any women statistically. Whereas men are a major cause of death for women. > > How is that not enough to explain why so many opted for the bear? If we’re going just by raw numbers, women kill far more men per year than bears. Therefore, if a man is asked _“If you’re walking through the woods alone, would you rather encounter a woman or a bear”_ then a sensible man should choose the bear because (again, going purely by raw numbers), bears are safer than women. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/135 "2024-05-18T12:32:10Z")
Unless the woman in question lives with, works with and dates bears, it’s not a good comparison at all. _Of course_ the thing they are around vastly more often kills more of them. Many, many things kill more people of both genders than bears do. Bears would have to be incredibly aggressive to catch up to, say, car accidents or death by choking due to the simple fact that they and humans seldom interact at all. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/136 "2024-05-18T13:06:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I read it years ago and have always regarded it as a good argument for not even trying to have a relationship with a woman. Romantic or otherwise. Heck, usually when I see it posted the people advocating for women’s issues usually try to downplay or distance themselves from it, since it makes women look so bad. > > For that matter if somebody actually thinks like that then _they_ shouldn’t try for a relationship with men, they should be living in some heavily armed single-gender enclave somewhere. Or as a hermit if they’re male. I don’t understand that reaction. It seemed to me that she gave practical advice with the goal of successful romantic relationships between men and women. I am not especially fearful of men, and I’m gregarious, so I’m the woman that you might find yourself chatting with in a long line, or at the airport. I’m married to a man, and i have lots of male friends. But yeah, what she said all sounded good to me. What did she say that suggests to you that i should avoid men? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/137 "2024-05-18T13:43:43Z")
Well, FWIW, I hated it. I thought it was condescending as hell. Something about the tone was really off-putting. Not to mention the way the author invokes “we” as if women are a monolithic entity who agree with her. I do not live my life sizing up whether any given man is a threat to me. She cannot speak for me. I take a reasonable amount of precaution to avoid ending up in a true crime special. I listen to my intuition if someone seems like they don’t respect my boundaries. I pay attention to my environment. Beyond those basics, no, I don’t really worry about rape and death every time I leave my house. Of course, the conclusion made by **Der Trihs,** “Stay away from all women” does not follow, unless he’s trying to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/138 "2024-05-18T13:53:44Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Of course, the conclusion made by **Der Trihs,** “Stay away from all women” does not follow, unless he’s trying to be ironic. No, I remember him from years and years ago, and this seems to be a foundational belief. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/139 "2024-05-18T14:35:47Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I confess I find this entire discussion very confusing. It seems to overlook the obvious. > > Bears kill hardly any women statistically. Whereas men are a major cause of death for women. > > How is that not enough to explain why so many opted for the bear? Because “statistically,” that’s likely the wrong conclusion given the parameters of the scenario (e.g., assuming a bear encounter and the fact that the man is a stranger). But also because there are numerous responses declaring that rational or statistical risk assessment is an inappropriate way to look at the discussion. So what you view as an adequate explanation (while likely wrong) is apparently the wrong type of explanation or approach. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2024, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/140 "2024-05-27T12:24:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > I confess I find this entire discussion very confusing. It seems to overlook the obvious. > > Bears kill hardly any women statistically. Whereas men are a major cause of death for women. > > How is that not enough to explain why so many opted for the bear? Because it’s about perception, not statistics. Apparently a lot of women feel that if they found themselves alone in the woods with a random man, there is a better than average (or at least better than bear) chance that he will rape and/or murder her. The bear OTOH, may or may not attack her, but at least will presumably due so in a manner consistent with how a bear is expected to behave and not out of a fit of sexual frustration-driven rage. Also bears are cool AF. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/141 "2024-06-01T11:19:10Z")
Somebody linked to [bear.org](http://bear.org) further upthread. I was reading an account there of a rare black bear attack of a human. A woman in northern Minnesota went into her garage and happened upon an adult fremale bear. This prompted a little tussle. Dig what she (Kim Heil-Smith) said after the fact: > Heil-Smith had been on the phone at the time with her friend, Debby Nelson. The phone was knocked out of her hand during the attack. But instead of yelling for help, Heil-Smith was yelling, “It’s only a bear” to avoid scaring her friend. “I didn’t want her to think it was a man with a gun or anything,” Heil-Smith joked. [https://bear.org/bear-facts/what-if-i-corner-a-black-bear/](https://bear.org/bear-facts/what-if-i-corner-a-black-bear/) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2024, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/142 "2024-06-01T13:57:13Z")
But what if the bear had a gun? After all, doesn’t the Constitution guarantee the right to arm bears? ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499/143 "2024-06-04T09:46:23Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > A woman in northern Minnesota went into her garage and happened upon an adult fremale bear. This prompted a little tussle > > [Snip] I meant to mention in my above quoted post that that incident happened in 2003, long before the “bear or man” thing. I thought it interesting that 20 years ago a woman told her friend, essentially, she’d think it far more dangerous to encounter a strange man in her home than a bear. Thus presaging Man/Bear 2024. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revised-man-bear-woods-discussion/1001499.md?page=6)