# revisiting old deamons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 15, 2002, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180 "2002-05-15T11:20:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/61 "2002-05-15T23:25:30Z")
**mrblue** , while those are purdy pearls indeed, you’re looking at the biggest swine imaginable. You might be better off helping someone who _wants_ to be helped. **bj0rn** is one of those rare things that leaves you both fascinated and homicidal. It’s like when the circus comes around. For a few days, it’s fun seeing those animals performing the same dumb tricks they did the year before. But after a while, the music from the village square keeping you awake at night gets tiresome, and you flip the circus convoy the bird as they move on to the next town. And next year, they’l be back again. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/62 "2002-05-15T23:37:44Z")
Damn Coldie, that was almost poetry. If you’ll excuse me, I feel a song coming on… “Isn’t it rich, aren’t we a pair Me here at last on the ground - and you in mid-air…” ---
**Author:** ![Aristides](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Aristides](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aristides)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/63 "2002-05-15T23:50:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bj0rn \* > \*\* > it could be daimons or goblins for all i care…i simply chose to use daemons… > > thank you for your lack of contribution… > > on the curious note…what exacly is it that bothers you in the translation? > > you think you understand what i am saying, but you are not sure if you are correct…? > you have no idea what i am talking about whatsoever…? > you think you understand what im about, but you dont want to jump to conclusions…? > > come on…anything helps. > > bj0rn - … \*\* So where are the Vendo this time of year anyway? What do you think of Korashi? Is that the name? Not sure. So anyways, I was thinking of having pepperoni and sausage pizza again. Did I mention I really don’t like fish all that much. Ever hear when nightfall comes? I suppose there really isn’t much of a market for hottubs there? Which is better Vodka or Brandy? What is your opinion of pepsi twist? Do you have mezzo miz there? Ever been to a hookah bar? Why are there no polar bears in Iceland, did you kill them all? I like peppered beef jerky, did I forget to mention that? Is it Skal or Hej der? I forget. What is the temp now? its about 30 here, I think, of course I could be wrong. Have you seen Episode II yet? I haven’t. Do you like the Brak show? What about Samurai Jack? Ever passed out on a pool table? Is one shower a day enough? Thank you and don’t change whats wrong with everything all over in the whole wide world. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/64 "2002-05-16T03:01:43Z")
Coldy… I am fully aware of how frustrating he’s been in the past, certainly more so to you than to me. Maybe I am wasting my time. But if we’re here to fight ignorance, maybe we should actually try to, even if it does seem futile in some cases. People **can** change. I not holding my breath, I’m not going to babysit, and I’m not saying he’s even reformed… but I will extend my hand carefully when someone recognizes their past mistakes. OK, he hasn’t completely recognized his past mistakes, as it seems he’s clothed them in justification. But I see an admission of wrongdoing, too, and if you believe you’ve never lost your cool with him then you’re probably just as wrong as his assertion in the OP. I think you know as well as I do that if you back him into a corner, he’ll have no alternative but to lash out. How many times have you tried the confrontational approach with him? Of what use is your derision now beyond the release of your anger? Hey, I’m not going to tell any of you what to do. If you don’t ever want to reconcile, that’s your prerogative. It’s the Pit; rant all you like. Pragmatically I doubt you’ll ever get along. But I see it as my personal duty to make the attempt to help and will continue to do so if I see an opening. The moment I see my good faith abused or the semblence of rationality depart, I’m gone. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/65 "2002-05-16T04:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bj0rn \* > \*\* > sorry, was a bit cryptic on that one. > bj0rn … \*\* You know, it might just save a lot of time if you were to make that your sig and attach it to every post… ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/66 "2002-05-16T09:36:15Z")
> [@](#): > > How many times have you tried the confrontational approach with him? ooo…nice! > [@](#): > > So where are the Vendo this time of year anyway? What do you think of Korashi? Is that the name? Not sure. > So anyways, I was thinking of having pepperoni and sausage pizza again. Did I mention I really don’t like fish all that much. > Ever hear when nightfall comes? I suppose there really isn’t much of a market for hottubs there? Which is better Vodka or Brandy? What is your opinion of pepsi twist? Do you have mezzo miz there? Ever been to a hookah bar? Why are there no polar bears in Iceland, did you kill them all? I like peppered beef jerky, did I forget to mention that? Is it Skal or Hej der? I forget. What is the temp now? its about 30 here, I think, of course I could be wrong. Have you seen Episode II yet? I haven’t. Do you like the Brak show? What about Samurai Jack? Ever passed out on a pool table? Is one shower a day enough? > Thank you and don’t change whats wrong with everything all over in the whole wide world. Vendo who? Korashi what? dont know nope. how much for one? vodka. shouldnt be black. mezzo what? nope. we have polar bear visits. no you didnt. skál. over 0 c°. no, i havent seen it. never seen it. no. no, but ive visited the flower bed. if it works for you, fine. Aristides: your kind of contribution is never welcome in any conversation, for you must not taunt what you think is wrong… you kind of remind me of the old sar…never mind. mrblue: the justifications i have made for my arguments might be wrong, but they might as well be right too…it simply is a matter of opinion. …something i have never seen coldy dearest acknowledge. > [@](#): > > I see an admission of wrongdoing i certainly hope so. my intent, at least, has tried to bring me there…bringing along the failsafe that i might not be wrong. but as you said in the first quote: “confrontational approach” is use too often as an attempt to conclude …confrontations. strange that it doesnt work. bj0rn - … ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/67 "2002-05-16T10:45:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mrblue92 \* > \*\*Coldy… > > I am fully aware of how frustrating he’s been in the past, certainly more so to you than to me. Maybe I am wasting my time. But if we’re here to fight ignorance, maybe we should actually try to, even if it does seem futile in some cases. People can change. I not holding my breath, I’m not going to babysit, and I’m not saying he’s even reformed… but I will extend my hand carefully when someone recognizes their past mistakes.\*\* So would I. The problem is that **bj0rn** returns after many months, and immediately starts a pit thread in which he calls those who don’t understand him idiots. Of course, he’s gonna claim now that I misunderstood that. I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen that pattern a few times too many now. Lots of people have tried the non-confrontational approach with **bj0rn** in the past, Duck Duck Goose among them IIRC. It has never worked, and I think at this stage, it’s fair to conclude that **bj0rn** and this board aren’t exactly a match made in heaven. That’s OK, though. There’s this bar I go to occasionally. Sometimes, a certain gentleman visits the establishment as well. He’s loud, obknoxious, and seeks argument with everyone in the bar, often changing his opinion back and forth just to be confrontational. The majority of the visitors hate his guts. But he only drops in once every couple of months, always makes for good inside jokes, and the feeling of relief after he’s gone is almost worth enduring the time before he leaves. I see **bj0rn** as a similar phenomenon. Mostly harmless, annoying at best. > [@](#): > > **OK, he hasn’t completely recognized his past mistakes, as it seems he’s clothed them in justification. But I see an admission of wrongdoing, too, and if you believe you’ve never lost your cool with him then you’re probably just as wrong as his assertion in the OP.** I’ve lost my cool with **bj0rn** on many an occasion. And no, it doesn’t work in the way I’d like it to: he’s neither more coherent, nor more gone. > [@](#): > > **I think you know as well as I do that if you back him into a corner, he’ll have no alternative but to lash out. How many times have you tried the confrontational approach with him? Of what use is your derision now beyond the release of your anger?** There’s no anger - just a mild annoyance. Also, no one ever backs **bj0rn** into a corner. Every now and then, he’ll walk into the room all by himself, postitions himself in the corner, and starts cursing at the other people in the room - who were just ignoring him anyway. > [@](#): > > \*\*Hey, I’m not going to tell any of you what to do. If you don’t ever want to reconcile, that’s your prerogative. It’s the Pit; rant all you like. Pragmatically I doubt you’ll ever get along. But I see it as my personal duty to make the attempt to help and will continue to do so if I see an opening. The moment I see my good faith abused or the semblence of rationality depart, I’m gone. \*\* You have more patience than I, man. An admirable trait. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/68 "2002-05-16T10:54:37Z")
I wanna know when **Satan** and **JDT** are coming back - they were excellent entertainment value too. :D&R REALLY fast from the admins: So who’d you vote for **Coldie**? re - I’m definitely NOT playing the Usenet game of “doe snot” here - prise ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/69 "2002-05-16T11:05:46Z")
I voted for _Democraten '66_ - as I always do. Unfortunately, people who vote for them are an endangered species. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/70 "2002-05-16T12:07:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\*I voted for _Democraten '66_ - as I always do. Unfortunately, people who vote for them are an endangered species. ☹ \*\* How liberal of Nederlands to allow the pandas vote too! [insert obligatory dutch bear joke here] ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/71 "2002-05-16T12:16:40Z")
I’m not laughing at the Irish interpretation of the Dutch election, reaally I’m not… ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/72 "2002-05-16T13:04:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Lots of people have tried the non-confrontational approach with bj0rn in the past yup, those are the ones that made the most sense and acomplished the most. not my fault that “confrontational” people had to come running and screaming that the “non confrontational” people were up to no good. > [@](#): > > He’s loud, obknoxious, seeks argument with everyone in the bar, often changing his opinion back and forth just to be confrontational…I see bj0rn as a similar phenomenon i might be loud and obnoxious but i am NOT here to _seek_ arguments or changing my opinions at every corner. bj0rn - … ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/73 "2002-05-16T13:23:05Z")
Ya ask a guy to marry you and he doesn’t even reply! Coldfire: Well???😉 ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/74 "2002-05-16T13:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bj0rn \* > **the justifications i have made for my arguments might be wrong, but they might as well be right too…it simply is a matter of opinion.** Perhaps, but when all is said and done, if you can’t recognize your own failings head on and admit them as such, you’re not going to get very far. Coldy is right to be concerned about the way you’ve presented yourself–calling people who don’t understand you “idiots” fails to recognize your own responsibility for expressing yourself in a clear and understandable manner. You need to address this if you ever want people here take you seriously. I can understand there might be a bit of a language barrier, but that’s no excuse–everybody says things that are misinterpreted–it’s up to you to make sure your intended audience can comprehend your statements. > [@](#): > > **…something i have never seen coldy dearest acknowledge.** Well, he has just acknowledged that he’s lost his cool… He’d probably be willing to admit that his approach has been unhelpful at times, maybe that he had given up on trying to understand you beyond the troll facade. What do you expect when you call him an idiot? A hug and admission of guilt? You fail to see things from his point of view, and as a result you’re gaining no ground. > [@](#): > > **my intent, at least, has tried to bring me there…bringing along the failsafe that i might not be wrong.** If you do not completely address your own failings honestly and without finger-pointing, I’m afraid you’ll not see much in the way of reconciliation here. It’s that simple. > [@](#): > > \*\*but as you said in the first quote: “confrontational approach” is use too often as an attempt to conclude …confrontations. > > strange that it doesnt work.\*\* > [@](#): > > \*\*i might be loud and obnoxious but i am NOT here to seek arguments or changing my opinions at every corner. \*\* You’ve missed the entire philosophy of this message board–it’s all about confrontational arguments and rationally defending your positions. I’ll definitely agree that some people don’t want to do this, but if you can’t accept it as part of the rules of the game here… then frankly this board just isn’t for you. I do have a limited amount of patience. Understanding is a two-way street, and I am somewhat skeptical that you’re trying to do much more than insult the people who argued with you before and excusing your actions. Unless you can convince me otherwise, addressing my points in good faith, I’m finished here. ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/75 "2002-05-16T13:58:53Z")
> [@](#): > > You fail to see things from his point of view i revisited this messageboard BECAUSE i had seen his point of view…and found it, in my opinion, wrong… confrontational approach: “blablabla, take it or leave it…period” this can hardly never be a “correct” method when trying to apply logic and reason behind your arguments. > [@](#): > > If you do not completely address your own failings honestly and without finger-pointing i do try to address my own failings (just do a track record on my posts…you will find that my earlier ones were far worse than they are today) although i do not like to shout them out at every opportunity…cant imagine if thats anything else than “normal”. > [@](#): > > Understanding is a two-way street it sure is… and surely, my posts might be a bit more difficult to decipher than posts from other posters…i know that because i have been told so. what bothers me about all of this is quite a different thing. the ones that are bitching me about me being incomprehensible are the ones that dont want to make the effort of understanding what i am saying or try and ask for an explanation. there are others that have made the effort of understanding my contributions and i hope their reading my posts have not been a complete waste of their time. so, if the people not willing to make the effort quit bitching me about my writings and simply ignore the “incomprehensible bullshit” i write…everything will be fine. if, on the other hand they continue their crusade against the “incomprehensible bullshit”, we will never reach a conclusion because they will never listen to what i say anyway. right? > [@](#): > > it’s all about confrontational arguments and rationally defending your positions i like the “rationally defending your positions” better…its just the “declaring my position” that people often fail to understand (be it somebodys fault or not, really doesnt matter). thank you for your contribution mrblue…if only there were more like you. bj0rn - … ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/76 "2002-05-16T14:12:43Z")
**bj0rn** , for what it is worth, I understand the majority of your posts in this thread just fine. But you do need to think about how you come across if all you talk about is the way you’re being misunderstood here. Especially, coming back after months of abscence to pick up that old battle once more makes you look bad. The only way to improve the way you’re being perceived on these boards is to alter your behaviour. Improve your writing, and post on a a variety of topics: **good**. Only post to keep bitching without provocation (and often with intervals as big as 6 months) about how stupid everyone is because they don’t understand you: **stupid one trick pony**. ---
**Author:** ![mrblue92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@mrblue92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrblue92)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2002, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/77 "2002-05-16T14:39:52Z")
bj0rn, you’re avoiding the issue. I may not have a perfect memory, but IIRC you had a history of what appeared to be intentional obfuscation of your posts and admitted as such. Are you faulting posters for becoming frustrated with you when you seem to have intended it? I can’t defend you if you maintain that action was legitimate or defensible. Nor should you expect people to apologize for insulting you because of it. Just as you justify your actions, so will they, and I’d argue theirs is the better case if your intention was to provoke reaction. Furthermore, people here aren’t going to just allow you to “declare your position” if they think it’s “bullshit”. They’re going to call you on it. **That’s why we’re here.** No offense intended, but again, if you don’t like it, then you’re in the _wrong_ place. Writing is a form of communication. When you write here, you are writing to an audience. If you write in a form only you can understand, you can’t expect anyone to take you seriously. That’s just the way it is. (Or **was** , I hope.) Coldy’s right. I like the improvement in that you have been more readable and reasonable. I submit you’ve still got room for improvement, both in writing quality and in your purpose for being here. If you can stop complaining about your previous treatment, shrug off the references to past behavior, and contribute to the board in a positive manner, I think you’ll find even Coldy would eventually warm up to you. Or at least treat you with some modicum of respect. It’s all up to you, really. OK, I’m done with this thread for awhile. I only have so much energy for this type of thing. ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/78 "2002-05-17T09:49:10Z")
> [@](#): > > and post on a a variety of topics why? > [@](#): > > you had a history of what appeared to be intentional obfuscation of your posts and admitted as such yes, i have intentionally been obfuscating the subject spoken…but only 2 or 3 times at the most, so i would hardly say i have a history in that area. as to my intentions then, they were not to hurt or confuse people…they were to see if people jumped to conclusions. i did explain afterwards and hopefully i apologized…(if not, i should have). > [@](#): > > Writing is a form of communication this is where it gets difficult…yes, writing is a form of communications…and yes, understanding is a two way street. i simply feel that i have been at the other end of a one way street were i was breaking the law by going against traffic. > [@](#): > > I submit you’ve still got room for improvement, both in writing quality and in your purpose for being here. true, everybody has room for improvement…and i hope everybody knows that. as for my purpose, i take that one step at a time. i can hardly be expected to advance to a varierty of subjects if i cant even finish one, can i? * * * back to this one way street…now that i have been on both ends i belive myself to have a clearer vision on how things transpired in days past… i witnessed alot of things i could have been better at…i know that. but more importantly, i knew that acting in the same manner people treated me would prove disasterous. how so? well, perhaps i can explain better with an example: at kindergarden: “yes, you are supposed to eat your food, but you are supposed to use your fork to eat it” how can this explain my situation? well, i couldnt just go and say: “use your fork”, because “how to use it” is not automatic knowledge. so, likewise with communication…be it written, spoken, drawn or whatever…we are not supposed to act like everybody are using forks, some people use their fingers and some people use chop sticks. you could say that we are all trying to use the english language…but in this metaphor it is the food…not the tool i eat my english language with my fingers, they might be fat and clumbsy, but your fork manners should understand what they are doing. if not ignore me…dont tell me im doing the wrong thing. > [@](#): > > If you write in a form only you can understand, you can’t expect anyone to take you seriously the problem is that people that dont understand me are taking me seriously…how can i be doing wrong then? bj0rn - …thank you for your very good reply ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/79 "2002-05-17T10:12:17Z")
So… you’re typing with a fork? If you’re made of wood, it means you weigh less than a bridge. Therefore, you’re a duck, so you don’t float. Well, I got better. c0ldfire - og og smork wolg wolg humph ---
**Author:** ![bj0rn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@bj0rn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bj0rn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180/80 "2002-05-17T10:22:11Z")
thank you for a very good example coldfire… you are always the helper. bj0rn - og = and [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-old-deamons/109180.md?page=5)