# Revisiting the "Dean Scream" **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 20, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728 "2013-10-20T16:04:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/21 "2013-10-20T20:47:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It wasn’t a good moment for him. It was an absolutely terrible moment. Have you looked at the YT video or are you relying on memory? I was staggered at how bland and un-weird the speech, scream or yell or holler or whatever included, was. It’s just a pumped-up candidate thanking his supporters and urging everyone to charge on. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/22 "2013-10-20T20:49:53Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Ah, I see. No, the rally wasn’t of any importance. Every candidates has an enthusiastic rally after the election results (win or lose). Even if his enthusiastic volunteers didn’t believe it, the campaign was screwed. Ehh, I wasn’t really talking about the rally in particular. I don’t know why I saw it as a good night for him at the time, but I did. It’s probably because he was still third behind two people that had been in the national political eye for a long time, but that was probably a dumb hope. Even if you’re in the lead, you can’t afford to make many mistakes. That wasn’t a colossal one, in retrospect, it came at a time when he couldn’t afford _any_. > [@Marley23](#): > > I’m talking about how it looked, not what I personally thought about it. If you watched the broadcast version where there is virtually no noise from the crowd, it’s weird that this guy is standing there yowling. If you hear it with the crowd noise it’s not so odd. That’s probably why it looked so awkward, but even if there had been crowd noise in the audio, going non-verbal doesn’t really look presidential. His opponents were going to push that clip. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/23 "2013-10-20T20:50:57Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Have you looked at the YT video or are you relying on memory? I haven’t watched it in years, but I’ve seen it enough times. Again: if **scabpicker** is saying the caucus results or the rally would have been “a good moment” for Dean if not for the Scream coverage, he’s wrong. The caucus results were terrible and the rally wouldn’t have mattered. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/24 "2013-10-20T20:52:23Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > That’s probably why it looked so awkward, but even if there had been crowd noise in the audio, going non-verbal doesn’t really look presidential. His opponents were going to push that clip. So how does taking the clip, removing the crowd noise and turning it into Dean doing a spontaneous howler monkey impression differ from the infamous “blackface” OJ cover? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/25 "2013-10-20T21:00:20Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > That’s probably why it looked so awkward, but even if there had been crowd noise in the audio, going non-verbal doesn’t really look presidential. His opponents were going to push that clip. With crowd noise it’s not that interesting. I don’t think they would have bothered with it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/26 "2013-10-20T21:06:58Z")
I’d actually forgotten how bad Dean’s results in Iowa were. Maybe I was thinking of 2008, where Obama and Clinton and Edwards were a pretty close 1-2-3. Dean was seen as the frontrunner and spent tons of money on ads, and then his poll numbers started tanking in the few days before the caucuses. Kerry got 38% of the vote, Edwards got 32%, and Dean had 18%. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/27 "2013-10-20T22:50:05Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > So how does taking the clip, removing the crowd noise and turning it into Dean doing a spontaneous howler monkey impression differ from the infamous “blackface” OJ cover? First, where did I say that was an appropriate, responsible use of the clip? I said it gave ammunition to his enemies, nothing more. In reality, he was actually probably just the most exciting thing in the news cycle at an embarrassing moment for himself. Second, they didn’t remove the crowd noise, it was absent from the original recording. Sheesh. > [@Marley23](#): > > With crowd noise it’s not that interesting. I don’t think they would have bothered with it. Maybe not, but we’ll never really know that one. We’ve at least learned that $100 of room mics to grab some crowd noise might save you some headache. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/28 "2013-10-20T22:55:14Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Maybe not, but we’ll never really know that one. Agreed. > [@](#): > > We’ve at least learned that $100 of room mics to grab some crowd noise might save you some headache. You don’t _want_ crowd noise there. That defeats the purpose of micing the speech. Anyway I’m pretty sure the sound was filtered out by the press’ microphones, not Dean’s. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/29 "2013-10-20T23:00:06Z")
Ehh, according to the wiki, Dean blames it on his mic. The point of the separate mics for the crowd noise would be that you could mix it to the level you liked, as in a live T.V. show. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/30 "2013-10-21T00:02:08Z")
The media never took Dean seriously as a candidate because of his full-throated condemnation of GWB and the Iraq war. The acceptable range of opinion in the traditional media at the time ran from fire-breathing conservative to respectful and mealy-mouthed left-leaning moderate, and since Dean fell outside it (on those issues, anyway) he and his supporters were written off as crazy outsider hippies. That’s what killed his candidacy and led to his lousy early showings. “The Scream” played right into that narrative and gave it a focus to build around, finishing him off for good. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/31 "2013-10-21T01:05:59Z")
I watched the “scream speech” live, and it needs some background to see why it was mocked. In the months leading up to Iowa, Dean was the clear front runner for the nomination. He led by huge margins in the polls that had started slipping away. The Iowa vote comes in and he gets crushed. No real way to spin it: he got his ass kicked. One would have expected a concession speech that at least recognized that fact. But, no, here comes Dean charging out from behind stage, smiling and rolling up his sleeves. What a great organization, blah, blah, blah, we’re just starting, blah, blah, blah, we’re going to win South Carolina, Virginia, Super Tuesday, the whole world, and then the White House! Heeeeeeyah! If I didn’t know any better, I would have thought I was watching a victory speech. I understand that he can’t come out and throw in the towel, but his attempt to downplay what was an absolute ass kicking came across as over the top, absurd, and being completely out of touch with what happened. I think that more so than the silly scream was what made him look bad. The scream was just easier to play in a sound bite. ETA: Pretend like a Super Bowl coach of a team down 38-0 at halftime gave a speech with a similar tone. You would think he was nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/32 "2013-10-21T01:23:42Z")
I really don’t think it’s that uncommon and I don’t think it sounded that nuts. When a candidate loses big in a primary, he/she has two options: try to point out some positives while quietly saying thank you to a dour and silent room, or act like he/she did better than expected and be energized and try to keep people pumped up because things are going to get better and victory is inevitable. Everybody does one or the other- sometimes even if they’re about to drop out of the race. Dean had been the favorite recently and he wound up with barely half the total of the guy in second place and he went with the second option. Maybe people felt intuitively he should have done the first. But really, if it hadn’t sound like he worked himself up into a screaming frenzy it wouldn’t have been a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/33 "2013-10-21T01:48:28Z")
In the OP’s clip, at 1:12 and especially from 1:14 to his scream, Dean’s voice changes. His voice has a strange, somewhat angry-sounding lowering and vibration. It reminds me of the tone I remember WWE wrestlers taking when they gave their bravado/intimidation speeches. Is anybody else hearing that? I do not remember any candidate having a similar voice. In real life, I’ve only ever heard it from quite angry people who were ready to fight. I don’t know if that had more effect than the scream but combined with it, it must have given the impression of someone who was aggressive. He was the opposite of Joe Lieberman who can say any number of outrageous things but with a boring monotone voice. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/34 "2013-10-21T04:28:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Scream didn’t kill his candidacy. Finishing third in the Iowa caucuses when he’d gone in as the favorite was what killed his candidacy. I’m sure the Scream nonsense didn’t help, but we also shouldn’t overstate its impact. Going into the caucuses the story was that Dean was riding a wave of enthusiasm that had turned him from a dark horse into the favorite. What actually happened was that Kerry and Edwards had more experienced staffs than Dean and their ground game was much, much better than his. So while buses that were supposed to be full of Dean volunteers were empty, Kerry and Edwards got their voters to the polls and won. Going into the New Hampshire primaries the story was going to be his failure in Iowa and he was probably toast. It’s true that the Scream made him like a weirdo and that if you know the room was really loud - the microphones picked up Dean and not the crowd - then it doesn’t sound like much of a big deal. Exactly, Dean was already on the ropes. The scream became kind of lazy shorthand for the media to fit the narrative that Dean was out of his depth and going down, but it didn’t seal his fate (it didn’t help). FWIW, I remember talking about that speech on Monday morning in the office before the media was playing it to death and my colleagues and I thought it was an odd speech. Mostly we focused on how many different primary states he mentioned in the lead up to the scream. I remember my friend saying, “does Dean think that the presidential debates will include a geography trivia round?” ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/35 "2013-10-21T14:03:47Z")
The sound bite played over and over on the news also had the crowd noise filtered out to make it seem like Dean was shouting for no reason. Much of the mainstream media of the time, which didn’t include the internet, was not enamored with Dean because he was using the internet as a back channel to communicate with people and stating that he didn’t need the talking heads on his side. They were waiting for the chance to bring him down. However, he wasn’t doing that well as the race heated up, and he did give them the ammunition. If it wasn’t that it would have been something else. The media selected Kerry as the candidate, they were casting a part in a play, and Dean wasn’t right for the role defined in the script the media wanted to use. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/36 "2013-10-21T18:27:30Z")
“Candidate behaves slightly awkwardly while campaigning,” is a pretty common story. Usually those stories get pushed out of the news cycle pretty quickly, as the candidate continues campaigning and actively putting himself in front of cameras. But Dean dropped out of the race right when the footage of the rally broke, so that was the last note of his campaign - had he performed better in the caucus, and stayed in the campaign, the scream would have been largely forgotten as the campaign continued to make news. I think **jtgain** makes a good point about what that rally looks like, too. Not that there’s anything unusual about a candidate trying to rally his supporters after a defeat, but to someone who wasn’t following the Democratic primaries all that closely, it looks like Dean is celebrating a win. So the news of him dropping out of the race, right after a slightly goofy performance at what appears to be a victory rally, makes it seem like he must have been a leading candidate until he did that scream, which completely torpedoed his candidacy. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/37 "2013-10-21T18:31:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The sound bite played over and over on the news also had the crowd noise filtered out to make it seem like Dean was shouting for no reason. No, it didn’t. The sound was filtered out by either Dean’s microphones - **scabpicker** said that’s how Dean described it - or by the microphones the press was using. That was done to make Dean audible, not to make him sound crazy. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/38 "2013-10-21T19:38:51Z")
> [@Bob's Zombie](#): > > No, it didn’t. The sound was filtered out by either Dean’s microphones - **scabpicker** said that’s how Dean described it - or by the microphones the press was using. That was done to make Dean audible, not to make him sound crazy. I can’t ascribe a motive to the filtering, I’m just saying that what was heard by most people wasn’t the way it sounded there. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/39 "2013-10-21T19:44:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I can’t ascribe a motive to the filtering, I’m just saying that what was heard by most people wasn’t the way it sounded there. You did ascribe a motive. You’re right that the video clip made it sound different, but you’re wrong that it was done to make Dean seem like he was shouting for no reason. That was unfortunately the effect of the microphones. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728/40 "2013-10-21T20:04:19Z")
Yes, it’s a directional mic, which is normal for that kind of use. No nefarious plot by the media against Dean is necessary for the recording to come out that way. What’s funny is, I just watched a couple of versions of [the scream](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5FzCeV0ZFc). There’s plenty of crowd noise in all of the versions I can find, even in the Fox one. If I was forced to guess if they did have room mics, I would say they did, and the sound guy was riding the slider for them pretty well. I think the claims of a lack of crowd noise might be just an excuse by Dean and and his team to explain why it got played so much. After listening to it a few times in a row, I think it’s just a damn goofy scream. Carol Burnett would have done it much better, but I don’t know how well she governs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revisiting-the-dean-scream/671728.md?page=3)