# Revoke a College Degree -- Can They Do This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 28, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867 "2009-09-28T17:57:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/1 "2009-09-28T17:57:49Z")
I haven’t watched the show yet, but this is inpired by a synopsis of the new show “Community” where a lawyer (I think) goes back to a community college to teach after his (presumably law-)degree is revoked. Which got me to wondering, can a college revoke a degree once it is awarded? Imagine whatever circumstances you want, but I thought once a degree was conferred, it was…well, _conferred_. I could see having some kind of notation put in one’s transcript like “earned the B.S., but under fradulent conditions” or something. (I know, don’t take anything on television too much as any sort of fact) So, does anyone know if there is a procedure for doing this? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/2 "2009-09-28T18:01:55Z")
I have no close knowledge about US colleges, but Doctorate degrees from universities, it was always my understanding that if they later discovered you cheated (faking results) or plagiarized, the title could and would be revoked, no matter how many years had passed. Why should you keep a title you didn’t earn correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/3 "2009-09-28T18:03:22Z")
As far as my understanding goes, most educational institutions will withdraw a qualification if there is any evidence of cheating. I’d guess there’s nothing to stop them; a qualification is basically a document that says “I think this guy can do so and so” (anyone can give a certificate out, it’s a matter of whether they can be trusted; i.e. be an accredited institution) so they presumably have the right to say “hang on, we’ve realised that this guy cannot really do so and so”. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/4 "2009-09-28T18:07:45Z")
Did he lose his degree, or just get disbarred (has the degree, but isn’t allowed to practice law)? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/5 "2009-09-28T18:22:03Z")
Interesting question. It appears that there’s actually legal precedent on in this issue. Every university is slightly different, so slightly different internal procedures might be used; however, it probably wouldn’t be much different from the process described in the 1986 Michigan case [Crook v. Baker](http://altlaw.org/v1/cases/495020): > [@](#): > > Appellee Wilson W. Crook, III (Crook) was awarded [a Master’s of Science degree]. Thereafter, information came to the attention of the University that Crook may have fabricated data in his master’s thesis, and Crook was advised that a hearing would be held to determine whether such was true, and if so, that his degree might be revoked. An Ad Hoc Disciplinary Committee (Committee) of University professors was designated to hear the charges. Crook was furnished with documents allegedly supporting the charges, to which Crook replied. A hearing was held at which Crook was accompanied by his attorney, following which the Committee filed a report finding that Crook had indeed been guilty of fraud but made no recommendation as to revocation of the degree. This finding was approved and revocation was recommended by intermediate authorities in the University hierarchy. As to the rationale behind why degrees can be revoked, see [Waliga v. Kent State](http://www.ahcuah.com/lawsuit/newsuit/ohio/waliga.htm). The rationale is pretty much that postulated by **Bisected8** : > [@](#): > > We consider it self-evident that a college or university acting, through its board of trustees does have the inherent authority to revoke an improperly awarded degree where (1) good cause such as fraud, deceit, or error is shown, and (2) the degree holder is afforded a fair hearing at which he can present evidence and protect his interest. Academic degrees are a university’s certification to the world at large of the recipient’s educational achievement and fulfillment of the institution’s standards. To hold that a university may never withdraw, a degree, effectively requires the university to continue making a false certification to the public at large of the accomplishment of persons who in fact lack the very qualifications that are certified. Such a holding would undermine public confidence in the integrity of degrees, call academic standards into question and harm those who rely on the certification which the degree represents. Also, here’s an [interesting review of the issues involved in revoking a degree.](http://www.uah.edu/legal/pdf_files/a_matter_of_degree.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/6 "2009-09-28T18:46:36Z")
Everyone has made good points, and I largely agree, but I would also add that as more time passes, it becomes more and more difficult to retroactively revoke the degree. You’re probably not going to get your Bachelor’s degree yanked from you when you’re 40 years old if they found out you cheated on your Psych 101 midterm, even if the University wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/7 "2009-09-28T19:10:26Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Did he lose his degree, or just get disbarred (has the degree, but isn’t allowed to practice law)? His degree was from an unaccredited college and thus his license was revoked. N.B. **Community** is a comedy. It does not pretend to be accurate about these details – they aren’t funny. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/8 "2009-09-28T19:21:12Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Did he lose his degree, or just get disbarred (has the degree, but isn’t allowed to practice law)? The quote went something like this: Friend: I thought you said you had a law degree from Columbia? Guy: Yes, but it turns out you need an \*American \*degree. ---
**Author:** ![Brainiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Brainiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/9 "2009-09-28T19:21:13Z")
They sent me back at the end for 1 credit, because I “repeated” a 4-credit Incomplete in a discontinued class with its 3-credit replacement course. I made up the credit in a summer “immersion course” in 3 weeks. I had the diploma and cap and gown, and yearbook picture, but not a matching transcript until the last credit was in. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/10 "2009-09-28T19:22:03Z")
Here is a case where someone gave up their degree after she admitted she cheated [http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-11-24-walmart-heiress-arena\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-11-24-walmart-heiress-arena_x.htm) [http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2008/06/\_wal-mart\_heiress\_paige\_laurie.php](http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2008/06/_wal-mart_heiress_paige_laurie.php) Of course she’s part of the Walton family so she’s going to be OK for money for a while. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/11 "2009-09-28T19:29:24Z")
I have this nightmare that my alma mater is going to do a record review and find out that I missed some deadline or didn’t sign in the right place, or whatever, and rescind my degree, which would then cause me to lose my job since it requires a degree. HH, who didn’t _cheat_ in college but did fudge the font size on more than one term paper. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/12 "2009-09-28T21:20:50Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > I have no close knowledge about US colleges, but Doctorate degrees from universities, it was always my understanding that if they later discovered you cheated (faking results) or plagiarized, the title could and would be revoked, no matter how many years had passed. > > Why should you keep a title you didn’t earn correctly? For one thing, unlike in Germany, a degree is not a title. Curiously, I could be arrested in Germany for calling myself Dr. Seldon, even though it was a fully earned degree but it wasn’t awarded by a German university. I think I read somewhere that nowadays other EU are recognized. It is not clear in my mind what revocation actually means. I still have the piece of parchment and, in my career I have never been asked to show it to anyone anyway. Once I got my first job (thanks to my thesis advisor) all the rest depended only on my subsequent accomplishments. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/13 "2009-09-28T21:28:10Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The quote went something like this: > > Friend: I thought you said you had a law degree from Columbia? > Guy: Yes, but it turns out you need an \*American \*degree. IIRC, the gag was that his law degree is perfectly legitimate, but his undergraduate degree was an e-mail attachment from Colombia. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/14 "2009-09-28T22:39:57Z")
At the University of California, degrees, once awarded, can be rescinded by vote from the Academic Senate. If a diploma has been issued, it’s obviously not possible to get that back, but the degree can no longer be verified and it is removed from the transcript. This happens quite frequently, both for rare/exceptional circumstances, and much more mundane administrative reasons. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/15 "2009-09-28T23:57:37Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I have this nightmare that my alma mater is going to do a record review and find out that I missed some deadline or didn’t sign in the right place, or whatever, and rescind my degree, which would then cause me to lose my job since it requires a degree. > > HH, who didn’t _cheat_ in college but did fudge the font size on more than one term paper. :eek: Until I was about 30, I had a similar, but even worse recurring nightmare. About once a month, I’d dream that my old high school contacted me about some credits I missed (usually something stupid like PE). I’d be sent back to repeat a whole year of high school. Some people might actually enjoy that dream, but I hated everything about high school even the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/16 "2009-09-29T00:42:40Z")
There are 2 very common dreams people have after college: 1 - The semester is ending and you realize you missed all the classes but you need the class to graduate. 2- You go to take the final exam and it was moved and you can’t find the new room. I had both of those dreams for about 10 years after college. And #2 actually happened to me but I was able to find the new room. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/17 "2009-09-29T01:25:53Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Here is a case where someone gave up their degree after she admitted she cheated > > [http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-11-24-walmart-heiress-arena\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/retail/2004-11-24-walmart-heiress-arena_x.htm) > > [http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2008/06/\_wal-mart\_heiress\_paige\_laurie.php](http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2008/06/_wal-mart_heiress_paige_laurie.php) > > Of course she’s part of the Walton family so she’s going to be OK for money for a while. And let’s not forget the [Heather Bresch M.B.A. controversy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heather_Bresch_M.B.A._controversy). West Virginia University rescinded her degree. ---
**Author:** ![\_xiao\_wenti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/b782af/32.png) [@\_xiao\_wenti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_xiao_wenti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/18 "2009-09-29T02:42:26Z")
I don’t know if they got around to revoking the honorary degree they gave him, but the University of Alabama gave an honorary doctorate to Richard Scrushy (CEO of Healthsouth) > **[Richard Scrushy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Scrushy)** > > Richard Marin Scrushy (born August 1952) is an American businessman and convicted felon. He is the founder of HealthSouth Corporation, a global healthcare company based in Birmingham, Alabama. In 2004, following an investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Scrushy was criminally charged by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). Scrushy was charged with 36 of the original 85 counts but was acquitted of all charges on June 28, 2005, after a jury trial in Bi Four months... ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/19 "2009-09-29T03:17:33Z")
Sorry to be back so late in regards to my post. Looks like my question and others have been quite well answered. And, no one made fun of me for asking what I thought might be a really “dumb” question! You all are the bestust. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867/20 "2009-09-29T04:08:32Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > It is not clear in my mind what revocation actually means. I still have the piece of parchment and, in my career I have never been asked to show it to anyone anyway. The fact that nobody has asked to see the piece of parchment doesn’t make revocation less meaningful, it makes it _more_ meaningful: if the piece of paper was what people were interested in seeing, then your degree is effectively irrevocable short of the school sending ninjas to raid your file cabinet. But if a prospective employer calls up the school to verify your degree and the school says you don’t have a degree, then for all practical purposes you don’t have one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revoke-a-college-degree-can-they-do-this/511867.md?page=2)