# Revolution in America - could this actually happen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 13, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206 "2011-04-13T08:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/41 "2011-04-20T00:21:20Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > If the standard of living for most Americans continues to decline as it has during the twenty first century political chaos may ensue. It will not be a left wing revolution, however. It will be more like the Spanish Civil War, with the right winning. The right is racially homogeneous, and well armed. Rich whites have plenty of money. They will spend a lot of it to keep the rest. If there’s a civil war the US currency will collapse under the weight of its debt. What will the rich use to pay the troops? Why would the troops be out fighting rebels when their own families would be threatened? They’d inevitably be ordered to shoot each other’s families. That won’t fly. They’ll run right home to defend them. Such a thing will likely not end in victory for one side or another, but rather a prolonged period of anarchy and barbarism. IMO it would be a fitting end for a nation that is so willing to screw over its working class and poor and other vulnerable people. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/42 "2011-04-20T01:21:20Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > If there’s a civil war the US currency will collapse under the weight of its debt. What will the rich use to pay the troops? > > Why would the troops be out fighting rebels when their own families would be threatened? They’d inevitably be ordered to shoot each other’s families. That won’t fly. They’ll run right home to defend them. > > Such a thing will likely not end in victory for one side or another, but rather a prolonged period of anarchy and barbarism. IMO it would be a fitting end for a nation that is so willing to screw over its working class and poor and other vulnerable people. Lower income people would suffer the most. Their life expectancy would decline dramatically. The rich would move, or retreat to gated communities. They would pay their private security with gold coins if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/43 "2011-04-20T02:17:26Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > If there’s a civil war the US currency will collapse under the weight of its debt. What will the rich use to pay the troops? > > Why would the troops be out fighting rebels when their own families would be threatened? They’d inevitably be ordered to shoot each other’s families. That won’t fly. They’ll run right home to defend them. > > Such a thing will likely not end in victory for one side or another, but rather a prolonged period of anarchy and barbarism. IMO it would be a fitting end for a nation that is so willing to screw over its working class and poor and other vulnerable people. Civil war’s highly unlikely IMO\> But your post’s ridiculous, we’ve treated our working class and poor far better than virtually “Communist” nations and most other nations also. Your comments are simply treason and pro-class warfare nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/44 "2011-04-20T02:30:35Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Civil war’s highly unlikely IMO\> > > But your post’s ridiculous, we’ve treated our working class and poor far better than virtually “Communist” nations and most other nations also. Your comments are simply treason and pro-class warfare nonsense. Class war and treason are two different things, **Qin.** Eugene Debs, for all his avowed internationalism, was at least as good an American patriot as TR or Woodrow Wilson. ---
**Author:** ![samusaran253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@samusaran253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samusaran253)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/45 "2011-04-20T03:14:05Z")
A person or group of people could ATTEMPT this, but they wouldn’t succeed. The US military is more powerful than every other military in the world combined. So I’m fairly certain they could take down any civilians. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/46 "2011-04-20T03:34:17Z")
> [@samusaran253](#): > > A person or group of people could ATTEMPT this, but they wouldn’t succeed. The US military is more powerful than every other military in the world combined. So I’m fairly certain they could take down any civilians. Think about what a revolutionary situation **means.** Sometimes it means the regime can’t rely on its own military (as recently in Egypt). One reason both Russian Revolutions of 1917 succeeded was that the soldiers in the field (inspired by LW propaganda of various flavors, combined with reasons common to every soldier who ever fought under incompetent officers for a dysfunctional government) were rising up and shooting their officers with great frequency. And then, when the Civil War broke out, the Red Army had no problem finding actually enthusiastic recruits. (Neither did the White Army.) ---
**Author:** ![samusaran253](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@samusaran253](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samusaran253)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/47 "2011-04-20T03:35:55Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Think about what a revolutionary situation **means.** Sometimes it means the regime can’t rely on its own military (as recently in Egypt). One reason both Russian Revolutions of 1917 succeeded was that the soldiers in the field (inspired by LW propaganda of various flavors, combined with reasons common to every soldier who ever fought under incompetent officers) were rising up and shooting their officers with great frequency. And then, when the Civil War broke out, the Red Army had no problem finding actually enthusiastic recruits. (Neither did the White Army.) Don’t forget the anarchists in the Russian Revolution. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/48 "2011-04-20T03:47:06Z")
> [@samusaran253](#): > > Don’t forget the anarchists in the Russian Revolution. [Here’s a good account.](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedOctober) > [@](#): > > That’s why the unified, fanatical Reds smashed the loose White military states, at first with the help of the Left S Rs and the Revolutionary Insurrection Army from Ukraine (or the Maknovist movement, after its leader Nestor Makhno). It was also known as the Black Army since they were anarchist, in contrast to the Red and White Armies. Local groups attempted to fight off all sides, dubbed the “Green” Army. The Black Army is thought to have saved the entire war at several points, stopping Deniken from taking Petrograd. However, they were betrayed three times by the Bolsheviks and defeated finally when they could turn their full force onto them. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/49 "2011-04-20T03:59:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Class war and treason are two different things, **Qin.** Eugene Debs, for all his avowed internationalism, was at least as good an American patriot as TR or Woodrow Wilson. **La Jacquelope** expresses joy at the violent overthrow of the American government. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/50 "2011-04-20T08:13:22Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Lower income people would suffer the most. Their life expectancy would decline dramatically. The rich would move, or retreat to gated communities. They would pay their private security with gold coins if necessary. Oooh, gated communities. Gold won’t be worth as much as food. The farmers will be the kingmakers in that scenario. > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Civil war’s highly unlikely IMO\> > > But your post’s ridiculous, we’ve treated our working class and poor far better than virtually “Communist” nations and most other nations also. Your comments are simply treason and pro-class warfare nonsense. Treason, eh? Bring it on. Report me to the FBI. Let’s see if I get arrested for treason. Of all the dumb things that have been said by people arguing against me, that is one that you can do something about right now. I’m not even going to bother asking you for a retraction because that probably violates some kind of rule on here and even if it didn’t, nobody around here admits when they’re wrong anyway. So I will say this. Call law enforcement. They can trace IP addresses. Turn me in. Now. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/51 "2011-04-20T14:43:27Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > Oooh, gated communities. Gold won’t be worth as much as food. The farmers will be the kingmakers in that scenario. > Treason, eh? Bring it on. Report me to the FBI. Let’s see if I get arrested for treason. > > Of all the dumb things that have been said by people arguing against me, that is one that you can do something about right now. > > I’m not even going to bother asking you for a retraction because that probably violates some kind of rule on here and even if it didn’t, nobody around here admits when they’re wrong anyway. So I will say this. > > Call law enforcement. They can trace IP addresses. Turn me in. Now. Its not directly treasonous but written with a treasonous spirit. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/52 "2011-04-20T16:39:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Its not directly treasonous but written with a treasonous spirit. Fine. **Drink** that spirit! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/53 "2011-04-20T16:47:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. .. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/54 "2011-04-20T16:55:33Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Its not directly treasonous but written with a treasonous spirit. Is this “treasonous spirit” just the ghost of some random Confederate or is it somebody famous like Benedict Arnold? Enquiring minds want to know! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/55 "2011-04-20T17:29:03Z")
Of course the problem for those who think the US Military could easily crush any rebellion, is how can the ruling class trust the military to obey orders? This is what happened in the Civil War, where southern military personnel defected en masse to the Confederacy. So it wasn’t a case where the Union army could march in and put down the unarmed rebels, because more than half the (former) Union army had joined the rebels. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/56 "2011-04-20T20:06:48Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Its not directly treasonous but written with a treasonous spirit. _Pepsi spew_ Ohhhh, I’ve gone from making “simply treasonous” to merely having a treasonous spirit. Gotcha. PS: class warfare? The rich are constantly preying on the working class. Working class wealth is being distributed toward the top. Few deny this anymore. Income inequality is higher in America than anywhere else; and is at its highest since the Depression. Class warfare would be better than what we have now, which is a damned Nosferatu plague. > [@Lemur866](#): > > Of course the problem for those who think the US Military could easily crush any rebellion, is how can the ruling class trust the military to obey orders? Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/57 "2011-04-21T01:47:08Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > _Pepsi spew_ > > Ohhhh, I’ve gone from making “simply treasonous” to merely having a treasonous spirit. Gotcha. > > PS: class warfare? The rich are constantly preying on the working class. Working class wealth is being distributed toward the top. Few deny this anymore. Income inequality is higher in America than anywhere else; and is at its highest since the Depression. Class warfare would be better than what we have now, which is a damned Nosferatu plague. If the workers are well off it matters little whether the rich have a billion dollars or a hundred billion. And no, we have less income inequality than say in Kenya or Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/58 "2011-04-22T03:34:38Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Is this “treasonous spirit” just the ghost of some random Confederate or is it somebody famous like Benedict Arnold? Enquiring minds want to know! It’s the ghost of the Black Panthers! Revolution is co-ome! _Off the Pigs!_ Time to take up the gu-un! _Off the Pigs!_🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/59 "2011-04-22T03:41:24Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Is this “treasonous spirit” just the ghost of some random Confederate or is it somebody famous like Benedict Arnold? Enquiring minds want to know! Well, there has to be at least three. The Ghost of Treason Past, the Ghost of Treason Present, and the Ghost of Treason Yet To Come. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2011, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206/60 "2011-04-22T05:03:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > If the workers are well off it matters little whether the rich have a billion dollars or a hundred billion. And no, we have less income inequality than say in Kenya or Brazil. Wrong. We have less income inequality than Brazil, but greater inequality than Kenya. Well, according to the CIA that is… [CIA World Factbook: Gini Index](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolution-in-america-could-this-actually-happen/578206.md?page=4)