# Revolutionary Groups in the USA **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2007, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129 "2007-08-19T08:47:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/21 "2007-08-20T01:45:20Z")
[QUOTE=SeanFlanagan] The first definition from your link is “To throw over; overturn.” No violence is implied. [/QUOTE] Nor did I claim otherwise. I took exception to your assertion that following the next election the government will be overthrown. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/22 "2007-08-20T02:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] If these facts do not indicate an intent to alter the currently constituted form of government in the United States of America I will provide more. [/QUOTE] [Moderator Warning] No you will not. **denquixote,** this is an official warning. I explicitly told you to take this discussion to GD if you wanted to continue it. Do not continue arguing this line in this forum. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/23 "2007-08-20T02:09:29Z")
[QUOTE=SeanFlanagan] It seems to me that this thread should either be moved to GD or be closed. [/QUOTE] It may be yet. However, I am going to leave it here for now in the hope that posters will respond to **Frylock’s** clarification that he is looking for illegal, revolutionary groups dedicated to overthrowing the government. Political machinations by parties that are part of the government itself are not part of this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![SeanFlanagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@SeanFlanagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanFlanagan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/24 "2007-08-20T02:29:11Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Nor did I claim otherwise. I took exception to your assertion that following the next election the government will be overthrown. [/QUOTE] Then please provide your definition of “overthrown” so that I can know what we’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/25 "2007-08-20T02:32:12Z")
[QUOTE=SeanFlanagan] Then please provide your definition of “overthrown” so that I can know what we’re talking about. [/QUOTE] For the sake of leaving this in GQ, let’s consider it to be by means of armed force. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/26 "2007-08-20T02:34:49Z")
I already did. An election does not “[throw over](http://www.answers.com/throw%20over)” or “[overturn](http://www.answers.com/overturn&r=67)” the government. Those both imply not merely change, but radical change at a fundamental level. This simply doesn’t happen as the result of an election, no matter how different the electees may be to the outgoing administration. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/27 "2007-08-20T03:36:52Z")
[Revolutionary Communist Party USA](http://www.rwor.org/rcp-e.htm) Here are some of their considered thoughts on the matter: > [@](#): > > **Resolution: On Leaders and Leadership** > > More than anything, we need proletarian revolution: we need to overthrow the bourgeois class in power by defeating their armed enforcers through revolutionary warfare, smash their whole state apparatus, and begin to build up a new and radically different society in which the masses of people will take center stage. [Answers - The Most Trusted Place for Answering Life's Questions](http://www.answers.com/topic/revolutionary-communist-party-usa) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/28 "2007-08-20T04:03:10Z")
[League for the Revolutionary Party](http://www.lrp-cofi.org/PR/polres.html): “A workers’ state can be created only through a socialist revolution that overthrows the capitalist state. We reject the theory of “deformed workers’ states” not created by any workers’ revolution. There can be no peaceful transformation from capitalism to socialism: the capitalist state must be smashed through an armed workers’ insurrection.” And who would organize that insurrection? A socialist revolution must be led by a proletarian vanguard party. Oh. ---
**Author:** ![SeanFlanagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8e8cbc/32.png) [@SeanFlanagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanFlanagan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/29 "2007-08-20T10:44:49Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Nor did I claim otherwise. I took exception to your assertion that following the next election the government will be overthrown. [/QUOTE] Slight nitpick, but I asserted that following the next election the **administration** , not the **government** , would be oberthrown. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/30 "2007-08-20T12:03:15Z")
**Measure for Measure** , just to clarify, the Revolutionary Communist Party USA is not to be confused with [the Communist Party USA](http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/758/) (which has been around for some time and is not advocating the violent overthrow of the government.) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2007, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/31 "2007-08-20T12:11:13Z")
Ah oh. **Sean** went gentle. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/32 "2007-08-21T03:36:43Z")
[QUOTE=Colibri] [Moderator Warning] No you will not. **denquixote,** this is an official warning. I explicitly told you to take this discussion to GD if you wanted to continue it. Do not continue arguing this line in this forum. Colibri General Questions Moderator [/QUOTE] Since I have been informed by **denquixote** in an e-mail that he made his last post before seeing my last instructions, I am rescinding the official warning. However, I am assuming that **denquixote** now is fully informed about the rule about political commentary in GQ and will refrain from such remarks in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/33 "2007-08-21T04:17:21Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] **Measure for Measure** , just to clarify, the Revolutionary Communist Party USA is not to be confused with [the Communist Party USA](http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/758/) (which has been around for some time and is not advocating the violent overthrow of the government.) [/QUOTE] True, and there are approximately 1 gizillion communist/socialists variants, with a range of stances regarding the struggle against the rulers of international western capitalism and their lackies in the police state, media and other petty bourgeois institutions. Let us examine the program of the [Communist Party USA](http://www.cpusa.org/article/static/758/), emphasis added by me: > [@](#): > > The Communist Party seeks a fundamental transformation of the economy, of the way decisions are made, and of the institutions that enforce discrimination, exploitation, and oppression. We pursue the replacement of the ruling class domination of society with a system of working people’s power led by the working class. We think this can only be accomplished by a **revolutionary movement that is embraced by a vast majority of the people** of our country. > > Winning such power will require a grand coalition led by the working class, in close alliance with the racially and nationally oppressed, women, and youth. Also essential to that grand coalition are all working people, such as seniors, small farmers, professionals, small business people, the LGBT community, and the disabled; as well as all of the social justice issue movements, such as the peace, environmental, progressive-minded religious and cultural movements, and all who seek a more just, more equitable society. > > A mass Communist Party based on the working class, and probably other left parties for socialism, will be crucial elements for building such a grand coalition. Because of the power of the capitalist class, because of the dominant role of capitalist ideology in the media and educational systems, because of the divisions created and fostered by the agents of the capitalist class, the next major social transformation, the transition to socialism, requires a class-conscious force. … > > We see revolution as a **profoundly democratic process, one that involves the actions and decisions of the vast majority. We reject all approaches that welcome and seek violent action.** … > > A revolutionary majority, based on mass people’s organizations and political parties, must work to **make it politically impossible for the former ruling class to return to power** , or use the military to impose a return to power… [Hmmmmm -ed] > > The Communist Party aims for a **peaceful transition _to_ socialism** , based on all forms of mass democratic expression and social action, electoral and non-electoral, to win and maintain working people’s power. … > > The struggle to achieve power and construct socialism will be difficult. The monopolists have great resources and great determination to keep their riches and power. … ---
**Author:** ![Will\_Repair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a698b9/32.png) [@Will\_Repair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Will_Repair)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2007, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/34 "2007-08-21T04:47:52Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] …we got Ruby Ridge… [/QUOTE] Don’t believe 1/4 inch short of federal gun laws constitutes a revolutionary movement. ---
**Author:** ![Tibidabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Tibidabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibidabo)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/35 "2007-08-22T08:52:53Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] This question may be unanswerable by its very nature, but I’ll throw it out there anyway. Are there, or have there recently been, any known revolutionary groups in the USA. But that I mean, groups explicitly dedicated to overthrowing the government. This could mean overthrow of a particular administration, or simply overthrow of the system of government itself. -FrL- [/QUOTE] Great [Documentary](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgRrK0wYEUU) on the Weather Underground. It’s in nine parts and there’s an annoying watermark that appears and fades throughout, but it’s still watchable and well worth it. Enjoy. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/36 "2007-08-22T10:33:33Z")
[QUOTE=Will Repair] > [@Derleth](#): > > … Ruby Ridge … Don’t believe 1/4 inch short of federal gun laws constitutes a revolutionary movement. [/QUOTE] And a few irregularities on income tax filings don’t constitute a major crime syndicate. The government takes what it can get, when it doesn’t screw itself up entirely. Randy Weaver did believe in the Aryan Nations dogma and was associated with the organization. In fact, the whole sawed-off shotgun thing was a sting operation by the FBI to infiltrate the Aryan Nations. (And yes, an Idaho jury found the whole thing was entrapment. I mentioned the government screwed itself up, didn’t I?) Then the government decoyed Randy with a ‘stranded motorist’ to get him into jail and hauled him before a judge on the weapons charges. The judge mistakenly told Randy he could lose his house, ensuring that after Randy posted bond he and his wife would barricade themselves and go completely insane. Here’s what Vicki wrote to “The Queen of Babylon” (also known as the US Attorney’s Office in Boise): > [@](#): > > “A man cannot have two masters. Yahweh Yahshua Messiah, the anointed One of Saxon Israel is our law giver and our King. We will obey Him and no others … a long forgotten wind is starting to blow. Do you hear the approaching thunder? It is that of the awakened Saxon. War is upon the land. The tyrants blood will flow.” Revolutionary rhetoric, if completely ineffective. More importantly, the Ruby Ridge incident was used as a huge rallying cry and _casus belli_ for more serious, if no more successful, quasi-fascist and fascist revolutionary groups. The Weavers were frightened people with odd beliefs and aggressive, radical friends. You could probably say the same for a number of people in any revolution. They’re notable now, and I mentioned them, mainly because the real scary types took their name and ran with it. McVeigh, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/37 "2007-08-22T18:45:14Z")
You might want to look at [The Intelligence Project](http://www.splcenter.org/intel/history.jsp), operated by the Southern Poverty Law Center. > [@](#): > > Originally called Klanwatch, the Intelligence Project was created in 1981 in response to an incident two years earlier. > > – snip – > > Though the Project’s original purpose was to gather information about the Klan, it evolved into much more. Today, the Project monitors hate crimes and domestic hate groups – including neo-Nazi, racist Skinheads, Christian Identity adherents, black separatists, and extremist militias – making it an acknowledged expert on the wide spectrum of U.S. hate activity. It may not meet your strict definition of revolutionary groups with the desire to illegally overthrow the government, but it may come close with some of the groups being monitored. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/38 "2007-08-23T10:03:04Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] Look at the history of the Anarchist movement in the U.S. It’s long and complicated, and not every anarchist wanted violence, but there was a strain that did for well over a century. . [/QUOTE] The trouble with Anarchists is they cant get organised,if they’d just work together as a team for once… ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2007, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/39 "2007-08-23T11:58:30Z")
[QUOTE=Lust4Life] The trouble with Anarchists is they cant get organised,if they’d just work together as a team for once… [/QUOTE] It would help if there were a formal exam to become an Anarchist. All you need now is a big beard and a bomb-throwing arm. (Membership in the Republican Party is optional.) ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129/40 "2007-08-24T17:06:55Z")
At my draft physical, (1969 or 70) one of the forms I filled out asked if I had ever been a member of any of several dozen listed organizations, none of which I recognized. It was made loudly clear that, if I had answered yes, I would have been thrown out, philosophically unfit to kill for my country. :eek: As it turned out, I was declared physically unfit to kill for my country. My father was probably relieved to hear it, but he was peeved that I was so damn happy to be 4F. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/revolutionary-groups-in-the-usa/416129.md?page=3)