# RFK Jr Files to Run for President (Dropped Out on August 23, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 6, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260 "2023-04-06T16:36:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/421 "2024-05-09T10:25:01Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > How you get neurocystericercosis is swallowing eggs present via fecal contamination. _"Dear RFK Jr,_ _When I told you to ‘Eat shit and die’, I didn’t mean it literally…"_ ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/422 "2024-05-15T15:56:10Z")
[RFK Jr. is defying the odds — against getting on ballots around the country](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/13/rfk-jr-getting-on-ballots-around-country-00157780) But balance this against: [Robert F. Kennedy Jr. unleashed fury over being left out of the debate conversation after former President Trump agreed to go up against President Biden on stage.](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/13/rfk-jr-getting-on-ballots-around-country-00157780) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/423 "2024-05-16T16:36:56Z")
[RFK Jr. becomes presidential debate X factor](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/15/trump-biden-debate-rfk-jr-cnn) > [@](#): > > - **To qualify,** Kennedy will need to hit 15% in four [high-quality national polls](https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden-vs-kennedy-vs-west-vs-stein) and to be on the ballot in enough states to have a shot at 270 electoral votes. > - **He’s got access to cash** thanks to his running mate, [Nicole Shanahan](https://www.axios.com/2024/03/26/rfk-jr-vp-independent-presidential-campaign), who chipped in $4 million to help run his now-notorious Super Bowl ad. > - **Kennedy campaign director** Amaryllis Fox [posted](https://twitter.com/amaryllisfox/status/1790833679197196539) today, “We anticipate fulfilling all participation criteria” by the deadline. I think it is up to Shanahan. If she’s up for blowing, say, $50 million, on television advertising, in the next couple weeks, he’ll qualify. But I’m guessing she’s too thrifty for that. P.S. I compliment CNN on apparently keeping to the normal Commission on President Debates inclusion criteria. It was wrong of the candidates to ditch normal procedures. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/424 "2024-05-16T18:48:33Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > It was wrong of the candidates to ditch normal procedures. In the end, though, it’s always up to the candidates what terms they agree to. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/425 "2024-05-16T19:38:08Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > It was wrong of the candidates to ditch normal procedures. Normal according to who? There’s no laws governing these debates. All the televised debates happened in my lifetime and the rules were set up arbitrarily. It’s not some kind of grand tradition well thought out and honed in practice over time. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/426 "2024-05-16T22:59:58Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > I quoted from this same article over in the “_ **Polling is broken** _” thread – here’s a tidbit about Kennedy’s supporters Yep, it is mostly his NAME, and then a few morons who have bought into the Kremlin & GOP propaganda line that both candidates are just as bad. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/427 "2024-05-17T00:21:39Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Normal according to who? There’s no laws governing these debates. All the televised debates happened in my lifetime and the rules were set up arbitrarily. It’s not some kind of grand tradition well thought out and honed in practice over time. Letting the Commission on Presidential Debates set the rules became a democratic norm. As for “honed in practice over time,” that’s exactly what has occurred. So when Trump kept interrupting Biden in the first 2020 debate, they honed the rules to have a mike cutoff in the next debate. Normally, Trump is the chief violator of democratic norms. Here Biden joined in. To judge by its stance on RFK Jr, CNN will try to limit the damage by following most of those long-honed rules. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/428 "2024-05-17T00:35:42Z")
No, it became a plain norm. And not much of one. The Commission has only been running debates since '88 - 36 years, of which the last third hasn’t been all that useful. So, let’s not rewrite history. It was organized by the Republicans and the Democrats in the first place. Granted, they were asked to organize the Commission, but they also stacked the rules for debate participants against third parties from its inception, and third parties have been complaining about it ever since. Before that debates were haphazardly organized by whoever could get the major candidates to agree to take part, which they did not always do. So, it’s a “democratic” norm in no real sense, except the pragmatic. And that’s the same pragmatism that now sees the same 2 major parties deciding it is no longer serving its purpose and doing what they did the first go around - setting rules that make sense for the current era. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/429 "2024-05-17T01:54:28Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It was organized by the Republicans and the Democrats in the first place. Granted, they were asked to organize the Commission, but they also stacked the rules for debate participants against third parties from its inception, and third parties have been complaining about it ever since. The prior setup where the League of Women Voters ran thr debates had the same 15 percent polling requirement adopted by the Commission, and now by CNN: [Fifteen percent was the figure used in the League of Women Voters’ 1980 selection criteria, which resulted in the inclusion of independent candidate John Anderson](https://www.debates.org/about-cpd/overview/). The rules cannot help but have a cutoff determining who makes the debates. A consistent rule is the opposite of being stacked. The people who wanted to stack things, against Kennedy, by changing a long-standing democratic norm, are Donald Trump and Joe Biden. I don’t care if RFK Jr debates, but whether he does should be determined by an objective rule, not the whim of major party candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2024, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/430 "2024-05-17T01:59:51Z")
The prior set up was only used for 3 debates, so not all that much longer. And the League of Women Voters used a 15% cutoff (which effectively cut every third party out - why 15? why not 10% or some other number?) because they couldn’t get the major candidates/parties to take part otherwise - that’s partly why there were none (none!) after 1960 until 1976. It’s always been stacked against third parties. Just because it’s stacked differently now is a bizarre criterion for claiming it’s uniquely anti-democratic rather than differently anti-democratic. The Commission for Presidential Debates is not objective nor is it independent. It’s bipartisan, sure, but that’s another way of legislating bias against third parties and claiming impartiality. Those third parties were not fooled and have been complaining about it from the beginning. It’s not a long standing democratic norm at all. Again, differently anti-democratic, not uniquely anti-democratic. Just because something has gone on for a few decades doesn’t mean it’s somehow a good thing or that objective, independent thought went into it. “It’s been done this way as long as I can remember” is terrible as a primary justification for maintaining a poor status quo. It just means the bias has been so baked in that people forgot it was there in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2024, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/431 "2024-05-18T00:11:32Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s always been stacked against third parties. It’s properly stacked in favor of candidates who have at least a slight chance of winning. Except – this is closer to common sense than stacking. If you allowed all the third party candidates into the debates, most of the time would be spent on candidates who the majority of swing/uncertain voters are not interested in. TV viewers, who are not political junkies, would tune out. And, until this year, that to-me common sense rule was followed in every presidential debate held since I became old enough to vote (I’m 69). Biden hasn’t personally said he’s adverse to debating Kennedy, but his spokespeople repeatedly imply it. For example: [Ms. O’Malley Dillon writes in her letter that the debate should be one-on-one to allow voters “to compare the only two candidates with any statistical chance of prevailing in the Electoral College — and not squandering debate time on candidates with no prospect of becoming president.”](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/15/us/politics/biden-trump-debates.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sk0.qrOA.7kmxn-vkkLcQ&smid=url-share) But (and I didn’t realize this when I posted previously in the thread) CNN and ABC have changed the Commission criteria so as to make it more possible that RFK Jr will be invited: [Here’s what it takes to qualify for the June 27 CNN presidential debate](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/15/politics/qualifications-for-june-27-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html) > [@](#): > > Candidates must also appear on a sufficient number of state ballots to reach the 270 electoral vote threshold to win the presidency and receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet CNN’s standards for reporting. Polls that meet those standards are those sponsored by CNN, ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, Marquette University Law School, Monmouth University, NBC News, The New York Times/Siena College, NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist College, Quinnipiac University, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post. So – just four 15 percent polls will do it, even if they seem to be outliers. By contrast, the Commission, I think more sensibly, went by the polling average. See this [Washington Post story](https://wapo.st/4bk3cPF): > [@](#): > > But the CNN qualifications required only four polls at or above 15 percent to make the stage, a much lower standard, given the natural variation in individual polling results. Kennedy already has at least two polls that meet that standard. ABC News has adopted a similar standard for the Sept. 10 debate, but the network has not yet disclosed the time period for those polls. The number of outlier polls where Kennedy hits fifteen percent is much harder to predict than the polling average. It’s the proverbial hold on your seat belts. Now, Kennedy also has to get on the ballot in enough states to add up to 270 electoral votes. I’m not sure if there is, from an RFK Jr. standpoint, risk there. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/432 "2024-05-19T00:57:55Z")
Looking at the debate criteria again, I think I was a little misleading in my last post. CNN requires that Kennedy be on the ballots of enough states to account for 270 electoral votes by June 20. While he will claim to have submitted signatures to enough states by then, states commonly take a while to check them, and have no normal reason to come to a decision so early. For example: [The Texas secretary of state’s office told NBC News that the signatures are still in the verification process, with no estimate on how long it will take.](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/rfk-jr-revs-ballot-access-campaign-response-sped-debate-criteria-rcna152708) So, with very low confidence, I think RFK Jr will meet the CNN 15 percent standard on four outlier polls, but won’t hit the ballot access threshold by the June 20 deadline. What about the ABC News criteria for the September debate? Their [criteria is similar](https://abc.com/news/6abdd5ab-5cdc-48c2-8184-8be2f1a532c1/category/1138628) to CNN’s, except that we do not know the polling and ballot access deadlines. Kennedy will, I’m pretty sure, have met the ballot access criteria in time for ABC, but whether he’ll meet ABC’s polling criteria is impossible to say. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/433 "2024-05-19T01:14:39Z")
IMO, Biden should not participate in any debate that Kennedy is allowed to participate in. He’s not a serious candidate and to debate him would be to dignify him in a way he doesn’t deserve. If he and Loser Donald want to yell at each other for 90 minutes, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/434 "2024-05-19T01:28:26Z")
Maybe there should be more inclusivity of “third party” candidates if they actually represent a party. Even if he did eke out a win, he would enter his Presidency with no political capital and there would be even greater gridlock than there is today, amongst other downsides. If he were part of an organized party that consistently polled _and received votes_ in the low double digits in actual elections, I wouldn’t be sure what to feel about including him in the main debate, but I don’t think it fruitful to entertain an independent candidate which is both unpopular _and_ without other political allies. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/435 "2024-05-19T01:41:06Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > IMO, Biden should not participate in any debate that Kennedy is allowed to participate in. He’s not a serious candidate and to debate him would be to dignify him in a way he doesn’t deserve. Due to having broken his oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States by engaging in insurrection, Trump is disqualified from the presidency. Kennedy is more deserving than Trump, since he meets the constitutional qualifications for the presidency. Trump says that if CNN and/or ABC invite Kennedy, he will still attend: [Trump Says He Has ‘No Problem’ Including R.F.K. Jr. in Debates: But President Biden’s campaign has been firm in wanting the debates to be between only him and the former president.](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/us/politics/trump-debates-rfk-jr.html) If RFK Jr fails to meet the CNN and ABC criteria for an invite, no biggie. But if RFK Jr is invited to one or both debates, and Biden refuses, Joe needs to donate all the money he has raised to Democratic congressional candidates. That’s because Biden would then have no chance of winning in November. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/436 "2024-05-19T02:05:45Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > But if RFK Jr is invited to one or both debates, and Biden refuses, Joe needs to donate all the money he has raised to Democratic congressional candidates. That’s because Biden would then have no chance of winning in November. Right, just like the last time a major candidate refused to debate a third party candidate. Who was that again? (Checks notes) Ronald Reagan in 1980. I wonder what happened to him? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/437 "2024-05-19T02:32:23Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Right, just like the last time a major candidate refused to debate a third party candidate. Who was that again? (Checks notes) Ronald Reagan in 1980. > > I wonder what happened to him? [Carter Declines to Debate](https://www.nytimes.com/1980/09/10/archives/carter-declines-to-debate-after-anderson-is-invited-first-clearcut.html) > [@](#): > > WASHINGTON, Sept. 9–The League of Women Voters today invited Representative John B. Anderson to take part in its first Presidential debate, and the invitation was promptly accepted by Mr. Anderson and Ronald Reagan but declined by President Carter. Carter then backed down and attended with Anderson, just as Biden would back down and debate Kennedy should the TV networks invite RFK Jr. Partisans love playing the ump (in the 1980 case, the League of Women Voters). Ronald Reagan did some ump playing in 1980, just not as much as Carter. I do not like it myself. For anyone on the fence between Kennedy and Biden, this is a plausible reason for them to lean towards Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/438 "2024-05-19T02:55:48Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > For anyone on the fence between Kennedy and Biden Anyone who’s “on the fence” re Kennedy is a lost cause. When Democrats try to chase after independents and the far left, they lose. Democrats win when they focus on getting Democrats to vote. Obama understood this. Howard Dean understood it when he was DNC chair and delivered a filibuster-proof Senate majority. Biden understands it too. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/439 "2024-05-19T05:28:00Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Maybe there should be more inclusivity of “third party” candidates if they actually represent a party. A different comment on the line above. RFK isn’t an honest third party candidate. He’s a FAILED Democratic candidate who got a third party to endorse him after his failure. So, treating him as an example of a true “third party” candidate and encouraging the like is supporting someone who is operating in bad faith. At best, he’s a terribly misled, unsane, and egotistic candidate. At worst, he’s a flat out bad faith spoiler candidate, who by his stated positions on most things, SHOULD have been running in the Republican primary. Personally, I think it’s a combination of the two. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2024, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260/440 "2024-05-19T05:35:11Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > For anyone on the fence between Kennedy and Biden, this is a plausible reason for them to lean towards Kennedy. No, after Kennedy tried to blame Covid on the Jews there are no plausible reasons to vote for him left (not that there were plausible reasons to begin with). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rfk-jr-files-to-run-for-president-dropped-out-on-august-23-2024/982260.md?page=23)