# "Rhoda" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310 "2010-05-13T16:21:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/1 "2010-05-13T16:21:56Z")
I’ve been watching episodes of “Rhoda” lately, which I haven’t seen since it first aired back in the 70s. What I’m noticing is that Rhoda isn’t nearly as interesting a character as she was on the \*Mary Tyler Moore Show, \*in which she served as a “foil” for the more conventional Mary. Without Mary, Rhoda’s own ordinariness comes out. And I’ve noticed that Brenda is now the foil that Rhoda used to be . . . self-conscious, self-effacing, constantly dealing with issues with her appearance and her weight, desperate to have a man in her life . . . and of course having to deal with their mother Ida. Brenda is now the more interesting character, and the episodes focusing on her are generally the best. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/2 "2010-05-13T16:39:03Z")
This is Carlton your doorman…is the only thing I remember about the series. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/3 "2010-05-13T17:06:13Z")
Carlton! He was a hoot. I remember Rhoda’s husband. He was hot. I stopped watching when they split up. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/4 "2010-05-13T17:36:45Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > This is Carlton your doorman…is the only thing I remember about the series. They did an [animated special](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0302387/) about Carlton. Not bad, actually, but the ratings were terrible so they gave up plans to turn it into a weekly show. Carlton’s voice was by Lorenzo Music, who also did the animated Garfield. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/5 "2010-05-13T19:47:17Z")
> [@AuntiePam](#): > > Carlton! He was a hoot. > > I remember Rhoda’s husband. He was hot. I stopped watching when they split up. [David Groh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Groh). He passed away a couple of years ago. ---
**Author:** ![In\_Winnipeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a8b319/32.png) [@In\_Winnipeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/In_Winnipeg)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/6 "2010-05-13T20:00:47Z")
And of course, Julie Kavner (Brenda) is now the voice of Marge Simpson. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2010, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/7 "2010-05-14T01:16:23Z")
You are correct, and the writers knew it, too. Particularly during the time Rhoda was married to Joe, she was _happy_, which is not the natural condition for sitcom characters. The writers started throwing more storylines to Brenda, but eventually solved the problem by splitting up Rhoda and Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/8 "2010-05-15T13:31:39Z")
Rhoda was one of the few shows that actually got BETTER as it progressed. The problem was Rhoda was a great second banana and to put a second into a lead is always a difficult thing The first season of Rhoda was OK, the second after marriage was bad. Why? Because it changed the character too much. After the divorce, it started slowly to become better and better. Rhoda found a new friend in Anne Mera, they brought in Ron Silver and gave Brenda a boyfriend. By the last season it was really a hundred times better than the first. So what happened? _Mary Tyler Moore_’s end that’s what. Mary Tyler Moore ended her show and it went into syndication. All of a sudden viewers were able to see fat, frompy, and hysterically funny Rhoda, and match her against the thin, confident, and not-so-funny Rhoda. By this time it was hopeless as you couldn’t compete against that. The thing is LOSERS = FUNNY. Winner’s usually don’t When show characters get their own show, you have to find a new hook for them. Look at _Mama’s Family_. Mama of the _Carol Burnett Show_ sketches was a real bitch. She was a self centered, antagonistic, blue haired dragon. But when they made Mama the center of a show, they changed this. Why? Because the central character needs to be sympothetic and have a hook. This happened to Phyllis as well. Phyllis of _Mary Tyler Moore_, was basically an unlikeable character. This is fine in small doses when it’s played off against others. When given her own show this trait was unbearable. Phyllis didn’t last because they didn’t change her. (Well it was the big reason anyway) Rhoda was truly one of the best second banana characters. Look at epidsode #2 of the _Mary Tyler Moore Show_, when she finds out the guy she invited over to drinks as a date is bringing his newly married wife. She dumps a whole container of bacon curls in her lap and starts goring. Pretty funny stuff, but nothing like the new Rhoda would’ve done. One of my favourite Rhoda moments form _the Mary Tyler Moore Show_ > [@](#): > > Phyllis) I can’t understand why Mary isn’t married. A girl in her early thirties, with a career and a lot to offer I can’t understand > > Rhoda) Oh you can’t understand why a girl like Mary, in her early thirties, with a career isn’t married, but you _ **CAN** _ understand why a girl like me, also in my early thirties and a great career _ **isn’t** _ married. You _ **CAN** _ understand that. > > Phyllis) Of course > > Rhoda) Well then would you please tell my mother, _ **SHE** _ doesn’t understand ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rhoda/539310/9 "2010-05-15T13:48:37Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > This happened to Phyllis as well. Phyllis of _Mary Tyler Moore_, was basically an unlikeable character. This is fine in small doses when it’s played off against others. When given her own show this trait was unbearable. Phyllis didn’t last because they didn’t change her. (Well it was the big reason anyway) And another reason \*Phyllis \*didn’t last was because every single one of the characters was annoying as hell (especially that older couple she lived with). I started watching it the same time I started watching \*Rhoda, \*but after about five episodes I couldn’t take it any more.