# Rice blamed "extremists w/ heavy weapons" not protesters, crowds or movie. **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 19, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717 "2013-05-19T02:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/81 "2013-05-21T17:24:54Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > It’s “thin air” to cite the reason given by, oh, the people actually did the attacking? I was unaware those people had been apprehended. > [@](#): > > Cite? There’s no evidence that the attack had anything to do with the anniversary of 9/11. If there hadn’t been other uprisings in the region, I don’t think Ansar al-Sharia would have attacked the consulate. If it was[planned](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/21/defiant-insider-benghazi-attack-clearly-planned/?page=all), then it had nothing to do with the video. Period. They couldn’t have planned a spontaneous demonstration in several countries. That’s just the nature of the words “planned” and “spontaneous”. > [@](#): > > The Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, was planned and “not spontaneous,” a U.S. intelligence official has told The Washington Times. > > The official’s statement rebuts news reports that there is no evidence the attack was planned, even as the intelligence community says al Qaeda-linked militants carried out the deadly assault. The official, who is not authorized to talk to the news media, asked to remain anonymous. > [@](#): > > If the members of Ansar al-Sharia had been regular people (like the protesters in Cairo and elsewhere) and not an armed militia, I think there would have been a protest instead of an attack. There was no protest at the consulate. That was a separate event. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Were you actually a \*supporter \*of Khadafy and his regime? :rolleyes: Or is this what it sadly appears to be, simple adamant opposition to anything Obama says or does? No i supported neither Gaddafi nor the militant rebels involved in his overthrow. Nor do I support warmongering from afar. The intervention in Libya was based on lies not unlike the lies before the Iraq invasion. It is indeed a simple adamant opposition to unnecessary death and destruction. Do you support death and destruction as brought to you by a Republican? Or is this what it sadly appears to be, simple adament support of anything Obama says or does? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/82 "2013-05-21T17:36:52Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The intervention in Libya was based on lies not unlike the lies before the Iraq invasion. OK, I’ll play along: \*What \*lies? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Or is this what it sadly appears to be, simple adament support of anything Obama says or does? Nice try at an equivalence, but a false one nonetheless. The Libyan revolt was indigenous, and only after it became clearly viable did the West intervene in the cause of democracy, and then only tangentially. The Iraq effort was a Bush creation, made of lies all the way down. Perhaps you weren’t around then and don’t remember? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/83 "2013-05-21T17:44:47Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I was unaware those people had been apprehended. What? We know who carried out the attack, it was a militia, and they released a public statement. What are you on about? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If it was[planned](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/oct/21/defiant-insider-benghazi-attack-clearly-planned/?page=all), then it had nothing to do with the video. Period. They couldn’t have planned a spontaneous demonstration in several countries. That’s just the nature of the words “planned” and “spontaneous”. Yeah, it wasn’t planned. Do you have any additional evidence other than an unnamed source from way back in October? What additional information has come to light in the past 7 months that suggests it was planned? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There was no protest at the consulate. That was a separate event. I know, I never said there was. Did you read what you had quoted? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/84 "2013-05-21T18:02:11Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Yeah, it wasn’t planned. Do you have any additional evidence other than an unnamed source from way back in October? What additional information has come to light in the past 7 months that suggests it was planned? Would you believe [Leon Panetta](http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/27/world/africa/libya-consulate-attack/)? > [@](#): > > Washington (CNN) – This month’s deadly assault on the U.S. Consulate in eastern Libya was clearly a planned attack by terrorists, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said Thursday. > > “As we determined the details of what took place there and how that attack took place, it became clear that there were terrorists who planned that attack,” Panetta said. This was reported on Sept 27. This is not new news. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/85 "2013-05-21T18:10:30Z")
Well fuck you Leon Panetta for using that word. I’ll continue to hold that the extent of the “plan” was them saying “hey, let’s go attack the consulate today.” I guess it’s “premeditated” if they came up with the idea a couple hours before hand, but that’s not what others are arguing. There’s clearly a difference between a spontaneous protest that got out of hand, which is what initial reports were, and a semi-organized assault by a well-armed militia group, which is what we now know it was. But it’s even a further leap to say that this was planned days or weeks or months in advance to coincide with the 9/11 anniversary. It may be a silly distinction, but if people are going to deny the notion that the video had anything to do with, they need to prove the latter. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/86 "2013-05-21T18:22:24Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Well fuck you Leon Panetta for using that word. > > I’ll continue to hold that the extent of the “plan” was them saying “hey, let’s go attack the consulate today.” I guess it’s “premeditated” if they came up with the idea a couple hours before hand, but that’s not what others are arguing. On what evidence do you put forth that hypothesis? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/87 "2013-05-21T18:28:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > On what evidence do you put forth that hypothesis? Because the militants said so, and there’s no contrary evidence that makes me think they’re lying. Plus, the attack that was carried out required absolutely no planning. It was as though a bunch of militia members grabbed their weapons and showed up at the nearest American building. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/88 "2013-05-21T18:42:10Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > Because the militants said so, and there’s no contrary evidence that makes me think they’re lying. Plus, the attack that was carried out required absolutely no planning. It was as though a bunch of militia members grabbed their weapons and showed up at the nearest American building. Do you believe everything they said, including that they were not part of the attack? That it was a “spontaneous popular uprising”? Yeah, this sprung from the hearts of the everyday people of Libya who, magically, came out in support of the Americans the day afterwards. Their press release smells of rotten fish. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/89 "2013-05-21T18:56:34Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Cite, please. I very much want to believe that. Trouble with things I want to believe, sometimes it just ain’t so. > **[Nakoula Basseley Nakoula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula)** > > Mark Basseley Youssef (Arabic: مارك باسيلي يوسف, born 1957), formerly known as Nakoula Basseley Nakoula (Arabic: ناكولا باسيلي ناكولا), is an Egyptian-American writer, producer, and promoter of Innocence of Muslims, a film which was critical of Islam and the Islamic prophet Muhammad. > On July 2, 2012, a "Sam Bacile", who was later identified as Nakoula, posted English-language promotional trailers for Innocence of Muslims on YouTube. The videos were later dubbed into Arabic and posted on the In... ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/90 "2013-05-21T18:59:00Z")
I think they believed that it was a spontaneous popular uprising. They may have been wrong, but as evidence for their motivations, I trust it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/91 "2013-05-21T19:16:49Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I think they believed that it was a spontaneous popular uprising. They may have been wrong, but as evidence for their motivations, I trust it. You believe that they weren’t part of it? If they weren’t, how do they know what it was better than our sources? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/92 "2013-05-21T19:21:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [Nakoula Basseley Nakoula - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakoula_Basseley_Nakoula) Eggzellent! Glad to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/93 "2013-05-21T19:31:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You believe that they weren’t part of it? If they weren’t, how do they know what it was better than our sources? To be a bit more clear, you’ve offered them as a credible cite because “they did it”. But they claim they didn’t do it. So, why are they credible about why it was done, but not credible about who did it? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/94 "2013-05-21T19:58:13Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You believe that they weren’t part of it? If they weren’t, how do they know what it was better than our sources? When did they say they weren’t part of it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/95 "2013-05-21T20:04:33Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > When did they say they weren’t part of it? Your post #27. THey say they were working in hospitals, not participating in the “spontaneous popular uprising”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/96 "2013-05-21T20:11:54Z")
And [this](http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/16/politics/benghazi-ansar-al-sharia/): > [@](#): > > In Benghazi, the membership [of Ansar-al-Sharia] includes Mohammed al-Zahawi and Sheikh Nasser al-Tarshani, its religious authority. Neither has been detained. Al-Zahawi – who fought to overthrow Gadhafi – has given a number of interviews since the September 11 attack on the consulate. > > In a BBC interview a week after attack, al-Zahawi denied Ansar al Sharia had any role in the attack [at the US Consulate in Bengazi], but said the group would not give up its weapons. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/97 "2013-05-21T20:12:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Your post #27. THey say they were working in hospitals, not participating in the “spontaneous popular uprising”. They said they did not participate as a sole entity. That, to me, means they _did_ participate, but they weren’t the only ones there. I’m not sure how you can read that any differently, but the stilted translation leaves something to be desired. I don’t know why they brought up the hospital thing, but it sounds to me like, “We were working with Libyans doing things like protecting hospitals, when all of a sudden there was this uprising! (That we instigated).” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/98 "2013-05-21T20:13:48Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > They said they did not participate as a sole entity. That, to me, means they _did_ participate, but they weren’t the only ones there. I’m not sure how you can read that any differently, but the stilted translation leaves something to be desired. I don’t know why they brought up the hospital thing, but it sounds to me like, “We were working with Libyans doing things like protecting hospitals, when all of a sudden there was this uprising! (That we instigated).” No, I interpreted it exactly the same as their own religious authority, quoted in my post above yours. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/99 "2013-05-21T20:37:34Z")
Well I can’t find the whole statement anywhere, but I found the [dude’s name](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/world/middleeast/attack-by-fringe-group-highlights-the-problem-of-libya-militias.html?pagewanted=all) at least. > [@](#): > > **Fighters attacking the embassy acknowledged then that they belonged to Ansar al-Shariah** , although they said there were other unarmed protesters joining them. > > But amid the backlash against the attack — and the news that the beloved United States ambassador was killed — **the group’s leaders have tried to distance themselves from the assault, often in muddled or contradictory ways**. On the morning after the attack, **a spokesman for the group made a statement to local television from the hospital saluting the assault, approvingly recalling a similar mob attack on the Italian consulate in Benghazi six years ago after an Italian minister wore a T-shirt mocking the Prophet Muhammad.** > > But the spokesman, Hani al-Mansouri, denied that the Ansar al-Shariah brigade had participated as “an independent entity following orders.” He said, “It was doing its work in Jala hospital and other places where it has assigned roles.” And **at a news conference on Thursday night, amid growing threats of retaliation against the perpetrators of the attack, Mr. Mansouri denied that any of the group’s fighters had participated** , pleading with the news media to accept his denial. So make of that what you will. On-scene, they apparently identified themselves. The next day, the spokesman likened the attack to another response to anti-Muslim activities, and made his apparently confusing statements about not being the sole participators. And then later in the week, when they realized they didn’t have popular support, they denied being there altogether. It doesn’t help that the militia doesn’t seem to have much of an organization or leadership. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717/100 "2013-05-21T21:39:56Z")
If America finally comes to its sense as makes me President for Life, I would behave as follows: If we immediately and certainly knew who did what before anyone announced anything, I would reveal it at once, and listen to the sound of their assholes slamming shut as they tried to figure out how the _fuck_ that happened. If someone claimed responsibility and we know they didn’t, I would publicly accept those claims as valid, while continuing to investigate. Any luck, start a squabble among our enemies, and mislead the perps. If we didn’t know diddly squat, and had no leads at all, I would claim we have an infiltrator in place, and expect results soon. Unless, of course, we actually did. All of those would be lies. I’d probably feel a bit bad about that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-blamed-extremists-w-heavy-weapons-not-protesters-crowds-or-movie/658717.md?page=6)