# Rice says in Iraq: "This war came to us." **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 15, 2005, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955 "2005-05-15T19:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/21 "2005-05-16T15:54:55Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Tell that to the Palestinians. Or the Uzbeks, where ‘freedom doesn’t seem to be on the march’ and we’re (USA and UK) happy to prop up another murdering, torturing scum so long as he’s our murdering, torturing scum and we can get an airbase out of it. ---
**Author:** ![I\_don\_t\_care\_about\_your\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f08c70/32.png) [@I\_don\_t\_care\_about\_your\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_don_t_care_about_your_cat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/22 "2005-05-16T22:04:15Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > Of course, no surprise. Her job title should be Liar-In-Chief. That’s what diplomats do. Of course, some of us hate it more when it’s a Republican liar. But if either Gore or Kerry had won against GWB we’d still be hearing lies from that office, just different ones. If by that you mean it’s o.k. because it’s just business-as-usual, I disagree. I find it a trifle disingenous to speculate on what Gore or Kerry _might_ have done if elected. You don’t know what they would have done. ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/23 "2005-05-18T07:13:47Z")
This is one of the manifestations of the new conservatism (which is just plain old 20th century facism wrapped up in shiny new duds): “A lie repeated often enough takes on a truth of its own.” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/24 "2005-05-18T21:28:43Z")
> [@glee](#): > > I think she means “This region’s oil came to us. The United States, along with the rest of the free world, believed somehow for a number of years that putting Saddam in power and giving him WMD’s to use against Iran was a good thing.” she said. "We cared about oil and US bases. " Oh my God! You mean the United States acted in its own best interest??? We can’t have that! Clearly no other government or individual ever does that. Let’s just tell the terrorist that we are sorry and we’ll leave the Middle East and Europe and ask them nicely not to attack us any more. I’m sure that will work. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/25 "2005-05-19T00:19:47Z")
“Might makes right,” eh? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/26 "2005-05-19T02:03:08Z")
> [@](#): > > ask them nicely not to attack us any more I _really_ hope you are not promoting the lie that Hussein was any sort of a threat to the U.S. and I truly hope you are not promoting the utter lie that Hussein had anything to do with the attacks on the WTC and Pentagon. ---
**Author:** ![sewalk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/27 "2005-05-19T02:13:15Z")
Why shouldn’t he repeat that lie. The amdministration has been blasting it at us for almost two and a half years. Josef Goebbels writ large if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/28 "2005-05-19T02:59:05Z")
On the other hand, I do not think that it is any more productive to try to equate the current adminstration to Nazis (or their actions to the actions of Nazis) that it is to allow any lies they _have_ uttered to go unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Highwayman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Highwayman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Highwayman)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/29 "2005-05-19T06:28:35Z")
It is funny to see Republicans gasping for breathe in face of all the lies their heroes tell. As a matter of course they revert to the “they are all politicians and therefore crooks” bit. The funny part is is that for as much as Republicans hate the government, quite a few of them are clamoring to control it. And before you say that they reduce the size of evil government, it has been shown, by the government’s own accounting office that they indeed run larger governments when DEFENSE is not factored in. In other words, Democrats run small governments when defense spending is not factored in. To twist Rummy’s quotes around, the Republican party has been operating from a position of near perfect HYPOCRISY for quite some time. So I agree with you, at the current time, that most politicians are crooks. But let us take a look at the lies told by that arch-liar Clinton and that great patriot Bush. First off, Clinton’s lies didn’t really hurt anyone except his family and himself. Curious George’s lies are hurting hundreds of thousands. So your “they all lie” defense fails in the face of the magnitude of the lie and how many it hurts. Secondly, you make Georgie out like he is this courageous person when we all know he shirked his duty in Vietnam as well as that smirking twit Cheney. But hold on now, Kerry was critical of Vietnam, that makes him worse than someone who never served and went AWOL from his kick-back duty that his rich daddy bought him. For all we know he was down in the Gulf of Mexico snorting nose candy with prostitutes. This all makes him better than someone who served how? It’s amazing the lengths that Repukes will go to shield that dumb ass with smokescreen after smokescreen. Whenever they bring up Clinton or Gore, or what would they do if they were president, you just tell them, THEY ARE NOT PRESIDENT and that GEORGE BUSH IS PRESIDENT NOW. Our country is going to shit and that is all they have for a defense? We have been in charge for 4 years and everything is going to shit and OH YEAH, what if Gore was president when 9/11 happened? I have news for you, 9/11 happened on GEORGIE’S WATCH. The fact of the matter is that he can’t find a 6’ 4" arab in a cave when a crippled liberal in a wheelchair had Tojo, Mussolini, and Hitler in 3 years. So that answers your question. When we are attacked by some of the greatest villains of all time with great economies to back them up, when lead by a LIBERAL we can bring them to justice in 3 years. You’re actually slacking George. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/30 "2005-05-19T14:27:08Z")
> [@sewalk](#): > > Why shouldn’t he repeat that lie. The amdministration has been blasting it at us for almost two and a half years. Josef Goebbels writ large if you ask me. Where do you get off comparing the United States to Nazi Germany? The last time I drove the country side, I must have missed the death camps, and the crematoriums. They must be well hidden. Hyperbole like this undermines any argument you may try to make, and makes it seem like you don’t have anything better to argue. And it’s a true insult to Americans. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/31 "2005-05-19T14:39:05Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Where do you get off comparing the United States to Nazi Germany? :dubious: It **is** possible to compare the Bush Admin’s “big lie” tactics with Goebbels’ “big lie” tactics without comparing the U.S. to Nazi Germany, **spiff.** Godwinization is not an all-or-nothing proposition. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/32 "2005-05-19T14:42:06Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > Where do you get off comparing the United States to Nazi Germany? The last time I drove the country side, I must have missed the death camps, and the crematoriums. They must be well hidden. Hyperbole like this undermines any argument you may try to make, and makes it seem like you don’t have anything better to argue. And it’s a true insult to Americans. No - what is insulting to Americans is so many of their compatriots are so stupid, so bigoted, so bent out of shape with hate that they swallow, and on this board repeat the Big Lie. This is an apt analogy not hyperbole. Both governments function on the same propaganda principle and large segments of both populations swallow it. To turn things around. Where does the US Govt get off acting like the Nazi’s with regard to the truth with respect to the issue of lying us into a war (as my own govt did too)? ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/33 "2005-05-19T14:51:12Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > No - what is insulting to Americans is so many of their compatriots are so stupid, so bigoted, so bent out of shape with hate that they swallow, and on this board repeat the Big Lie. This is an apt analogy not hyperbole. Both governments function on the same propaganda principle and large segments of both populations swallow it. > > To turn things around. Where does the US Govt get off acting like the Nazi’s with regard to the truth with respect to the issue of lying us into a war (as my own govt did too)? I know we want to believe that there was some vast right wing conspiracy to enter the war in Iraq, however comforting that may be to some of you. Clearly there were no WMD. But you know what; the United States wasn’t the only country to think that there were. The UK Germany and many other countries also thought that they had WMD, and Germany for one hasn’t support the US in this war - so they clearly didn’t have any reason the join the conspiracy. Intelligence let the US down. It let a lot of other nations down as well. But we didn’t go to war with Switzerland. We went to war with a bloodthirsty tyrant, who gassed his own people and invaded his neighbors and tortured thousands of his own people. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/34 "2005-05-19T14:55:39Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I know we want to believe that there was some vast right wing conspiracy to enter the war in Iraq, however comforting that may be to some of you. Clearly there were no WMD. But you know what; the United States wasn’t the only country to think that there were. The UK Germany and many other countries also thought that they had WMD, and Germany for one hasn’t support the US in this war - so they clearly didn’t have any reason the join the conspiracy. Intelligence let the US down. It let a lot of other nations down as well. But we didn’t go to war with Switzerland. We went to war with a bloodthirsty tyrant, who gassed his own people and invaded his neighbors and tortured thousands of his own people. Well Herr Spiff, it’s good to see you’re doing your part. This opinion has been so thoroughly debunked on this board and in the real world I can only assume you have no interest in the truth. The French didn’t buy it. Blix didn’t buy it. I didn’t buy it. See also the recent M16 Chief memo explicitly proving the same - and as an obvious expert on the subject I’m sure you’re aware of it so no link. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/35 "2005-05-19T14:57:48Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > We went to war with a bloodthirsty tyrant, who gassed his own people and invaded his neighbors and tortured thousands of his own people. And the fight against ignorance goes on and on and on and on… > [@spifflog](#): > > Intelligence let the US down. It’s not so much that you are not intelligent, you should just read more. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/36 "2005-05-19T15:01:17Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > And the fight against ignorance goes on and on and on and on… > > It’s not so much that you are not intelligent, you should just read more. No you’re right Latro. Saddam was a swell guy. Bad press, don’t believe a word. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/37 "2005-05-19T15:03:38Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Well Herr Spiff, it’s good to see you’re doing your part. This opinion has been so thoroughly debunked on this board and in the real world I can only assume you have no interest in the truth. > > The French didn’t buy it. Blix didn’t buy it. I didn’t buy it. See also the recent M16 Chief memo explicitly proving the same - and as an obvious expert on the subject I’m sure you’re aware of it so no link. Tagos, BTW, my dead relatives will appreciate you refraining from the ‘Herr’ sarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/38 "2005-05-19T15:09:31Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > It sounds similar to Bush’s recent comments about the US trading Eastern Europe’s freedom for stability at Yalta. Silly me, I thought what we traded at Yalta was Eastern Europe’s freedom for continued Soviet participation in that war after they were done pushing the Germans out of their territory so that our conquest of Western Europe would be possible. Basically trading Poland for France. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/39 "2005-05-19T16:26:24Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Tagos, drop the allusions to posters being Nazis. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955/40 "2005-05-19T16:54:48Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > But you know what; the United States wasn’t the only country to think that there were. The UK Germany and many other countries also thought that they had WMD, and Germany for one hasn’t support the US in this war - so they clearly didn’t have any reason the join the conspiracy. Intelligence let the US down. It let a lot of other nations down as well. But we didn’t go to war with Switzerland. We went to war with a bloodthirsty tyrant, who gassed his own people and invaded his neighbors and tortured thousands of his own people. Christ almighty not again. Have you read the intelligence reports? They were full of ‘may have’ and ‘if’. The UN who were there, reported that arms were destroyed and they needed more time to verify if the rest were gone. US, UK and other countries who supported this war stretched the meaning of the intelligence to ridiculous amounts. Blair talked of the UK being under threat of an attack in 45mins. When in actuality the report was about **if** the Iraqis had a field ready (short range) weapon they **could** fire it in 45min’s. A former Foreign Secretary in Blair’s government resigned as he said in all the intelligence he had seen he saw no real threat > [@](#): > > Ironically, it is only because Iraq’s military forces are so weak that we can even contemplate its invasion. Some advocates of conflict claim that Saddam’s forces are so weak, so demoralised and so badly equipped that the war will be over in a few days. > > We cannot base our military strategy on the assumption that Saddam is weak and at the same time justify pre-emptive action on the claim that he is a threat. > > Iraq probably has no weapons of mass destruction in the commonly understood sense of the term - namely a credible device capable of being delivered against a strategic city target. > > It probably still has biological toxins and battlefield chemical munitions, but it has had them since the 1980s when US companies sold Saddam anthrax agents and the then British Government approved chemical and munitions factories. > > Why is it now so urgent that we should take military action to disarm a military capacity that has been there for 20 years, and which we helped to create? > > Why is it necessary to resort to war this week, while Saddam’s ambition to complete his weapons programme is blocked by the presence of UN inspectors? [BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cook's resignation speech](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/2859431.stm) Oh and you do know that the US backed him going to war with his neighbours. They gave him arms and access to satellite imagery to aim them better and kill more. The US blocked a resolution criticising Iraq for gassing the Kurds. The US did nothing when the poor bastards in the south rose up against Saddam after the Gulf War I at Daddy Bush’s requests. They were slaughtered by Saddam. The US did nothing. This was no honourable war. It was at best a disgusting Neo-con power play to try and gain control and greater influence over the ME. At worst it was an illegal act of barbarity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-says-in-iraq-this-war-came-to-us/303955.md?page=3)