# Rice, shut the fuck up about Iran already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 9, 2005, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244 "2005-02-09T19:10:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/41 "2005-02-09T22:58:31Z")
Right now we’re implying to IRAN that they’re next on our list. They take a look around and see NK and Iraq, and they say shit we better get these things running so no one will fuck with us. ---
**Author:** ![RevCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@RevCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RevCo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/42 "2005-02-09T23:02:02Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Too late. We’re going to have to learn how to deal with a world in which many, if not most, if not all nations have nuclear weapons. We’re going to have to learn to deal with a world in which a limited nuclear war is likely to happen. (Pakistan-India, anybody?) The non-proliferation treaty is worth exactly the intent of a signatory to abide by it, and a sovereign nation which wishes to develop nuclear weapons as an item in its defense arsenal is going to do so. Get used to it. Let 'em have 'em. They’re gonna have 'em anyways. That’s the solution? With nuclear bombs? Something I’m missing, I guess :dubious: Funny how positions _on the surface_ have appeared to reverse on this issue – with GWB fighting nuclear proliferation and his detractors… finding it acceptable that more countries gain access to nuclear weapons. Very interesting! ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/43 "2005-02-09T23:11:28Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Let 'em have 'em. They’re gonna have 'em anyways. That’s the solution? With nuclear bombs? Something I’m missing, I guess :dubious: > > Funny how positions _on the surface_ have appeared to reverse on this issue – with GWB fighting nuclear proliferation and his detractors… finding it acceptable that more countries gain access to nuclear weapons. Very interesting! No you’re missing the point totally. What Bush is doing is _making them seek nukes faster!_ Shit, by our preemptive war logic, Iran would be within it’s rights to strike us. How warped is that? This is specifically why you don’t let the genie out of the bottle. ---
**Author:** ![RevCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@RevCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RevCo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/44 "2005-02-09T23:13:51Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > There’s a big difference between “allowing to” and “giving incentive to” develop nukes. Check out our current rhetoric, we’re not screwing with Cuba so leave them out of it. Right now we’re implying to them that they’re next on our list. They take a look around and see NK and Iraq, and they say shit we better get these things running so no one will fuck with us. Who else is there to STOP a country from getting nuclear bombs? The UN won’t move - the onus is on America to do the dirty work. How are we going to disarm Iran - passing 18 resolutions? Nobody has a better solution. We never threatened N. Korea, yet they ended up with nukes anyhow - even after all the negotiating/stalling. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/45 "2005-02-09T23:16:15Z")
America - World Police. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/46 "2005-02-09T23:21:49Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Let 'em have 'em. They’re gonna have 'em anyways. That’s the solution? With nuclear bombs? Something I’m missing, I guess :dubious: Yes, you’re missing a capacity to think. In a perfect world, our telling a country “don’t build nukes or else” would work. Hell, in a perfect world, nobody, including us, would have nukes. We aren’t in that world, and in the real world, countries will do what they think they need to do to defend themselves. Invading every country that wants nukes would be a fruitless task. And stupid. > [@](#): > > We never threatened N. Korea … And you’re a dumbass. We’ve been threatening North Korea for 55 years. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/47 "2005-02-09T23:36:38Z")
I would’ve sworn that just a few days ago someone else in the Bush admin. had said that military options were NOT on the table wrt Iran. Anyone else remember this? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/48 "2005-02-09T23:41:54Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > I would’ve sworn that just a few days ago someone else in the Bush admin. had said that military options were NOT on the table wrt Iran. Anyone else remember this? Technically, they are still saying that. The overt threat is to take Iran to the U.N. Security Council. We all remember what happened the last time we did that, don’t we? ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/49 "2005-02-09T23:43:43Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Funny how positions _on the surface_ have appeared to reverse on this issue – with GWB fighting nuclear proliferation and his detractors… finding it acceptable that more countries gain access to nuclear weapons. Very interesting! If that was what this was about, I’d be all for it. Unfortunately, that’s not what this is about. As for your previous reply to me, did you miss the word ‘maybe’ in the sentence you quoted? IMO, there is no doubt that our military and political actions in the middle east have bolstered their resolve against us and spurred on their attempts at developing nukes to protect themselves against us. But opinions are like assholes… Sam ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/50 "2005-02-10T02:42:13Z")
The thing that really bugs me about this whole issue with Iran is that they, along with North Korea, were the obvious threats all along. Even back in the “Iraq has WMDs,” I do not recall anyone seriously suggesting that they were within months of producing nuclear weapons, if they did not already have them (okay, no one seriously suggesting that outside of the fearmongering implications coming from certain far right nut balls). If Bush hadn’t decided to take the nation on a personal crusade to avenge the assassination attempt on his father, we could actually be doing something about Iran right now. Oh good, a bunch of fucking religious nuts might launch a nuke somewhere, but hey, we made a tiny chunk of sand safe for democracy. Well, kind of safe. Well, not really that safe, but they won’t fuck with my dad again! ---
**Author:** ![RevCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@RevCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RevCo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/51 "2005-02-10T06:20:13Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > There’s a big difference between “allowing to” and “giving incentive to” develop nukes. Check out our current rhetoric, we’re not screwing with Cuba so leave them out of it. Right now we’re implying to them that they’re next on our list. They take a look around and see NK and Iraq, and they say shit we better get these things running so no one will fuck with us. > > All countries are the same in many respects, because humans are the same in many respects. We loudly go bully them and tell this or that, and they’ll flip us the bird and do the opposite. Imagine if someone started telling America, you can’t do this, you better not do this. What do you think we’d want to do? Do the very thing they’re talking about just to piss them off. Well I’m sure Iran ain’t much different in that respect. Uh, these countries were pursuing weapons programs regardless. Anyone who thinks its America’s fault Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons has an agenda (Iran has lots of other enemies besides the US. We’re not the only agressor in the world.) North Korea built NW’s right under the UN’s nose - and negotiations did nothing. Iran is building NW’s right now. Think we shouldn’t do something? Germany was telling USA not to invade Iraq, so now by your logic we were justified? Now it’s Germany’s fault we invaded and hey, it’s now Germany’s fault Iran is pursuing a NW program! We’ll tell 'em it was human nature and all that. But countries don’t work that way. Iran is in NO way justified persuing a NW program. The only country responsible is Iran. ---
**Author:** ![RevCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@RevCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RevCo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/52 "2005-02-10T07:06:38Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > As for your previous reply to me, did you miss the word ‘maybe’ in the sentence you quoted? IMO, there is no doubt that our military and political actions in the middle east have bolstered their resolve against us and spurred on their attempts at developing nukes to protect themselves against us. But opinions are like assholes… Yes, in your opinion there is no doubt that our military and political actions in the Middle East have bolstered their resolve against us, but who thinks that there was great love for us before - we were/are the great Satan west. If we hadn’t invaded Iraq, Iran would be building nuclear arms to protect against their enemy Israel, or Syria, or Iraq, or “the West” in general. They are now moving faster because the USA threatened them if they do not cease their program - could be true! But is their NW program a new thing because the US showed up and ruined their party? No - they were pursuing nuclear weapons [before](http://www.deccanherald.com/deccanherald/jan062005/f3.asp) we invaded Iraq (but it’s the US that sez it, and who can trust them?) This isn’t a new thing. The only options are: withdraw and let them continue at a slow pace, invade and stop them completely, or threaten and have them continue at a rapid pace. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/53 "2005-02-10T07:31:40Z")
I hate to say this (because I’d hate for anyone to think that this is becoming a trend of some kind on my part), but I have to agree with those who say that it’s ridiculous to think that Iran’s nuclear program would be nonexistent, or _even any slower_, if there had been no Iraq invasion, if Rice had kept her mouth shut, etc. I just don’t think things are working that way there, and probably haven’t since it was publicized that Israel had nukes. That said, Rice’s phrasing was needlessly antagonistic, and military options (even if we could spare the resources) would be completely boneheaded - so much so that I don’t think even Bush and his advisors are able to. (Note: not “want to” - “able to.” And this is without conspiracy theories coming into play that would allow them to - I prefer to discuss stuff in rational terms.) Especially given that CNN is running a breaking news banner that says that North Korea has, for the first time, claimed to have nukes… ---
**Author:** ![Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@Scoundrel\_Swanswater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoundrel_Swanswater)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/54 "2005-02-10T11:29:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Iran is in NO way justified persuing a NW program. The only country responsible is Iran. Why not? Why is the US the only ones who are **justified**? You have a very weird few of the world. You do realise that their are other countries in the world? And that these are not governed by BushCo? Just checking. :wally ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/55 "2005-02-10T12:56:45Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Anyone who thinks its America’s fault Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons has an agenda (Iran has lots of other enemies besides the US. I didn’t say it’s America’s fault. All I’m saying is if the US is making all these veiled threats towards Iran, don’t be surprised if they say “shit we might get attacked, hurry up with the fucking nukes!” > [@](#): > > We’re not the only agressor in the world.) North Korea built NW’s right under the UN’s nose - and negotiations did nothing. So then we might as well go attack today then. > [@](#): > > Iran is building NW’s right now. Think we shouldn’t do something? I think we shouldn’t intimate that we might attack. > [@](#): > > Germany was telling USA not to invade Iraq, so now by your logic we were justified? Now it’s Germany’s fault we invaded and hey, it’s now Germany’s fault Iran is pursuing a NW program! We’ll tell 'em it was human nature and all that. But countries don’t work that way. Frankly, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about here. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/56 "2005-02-10T14:45:30Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Does anyone else get the feeling btw that Iran will be more likely to give/sell some wmd shit away? More likely than who? > [@RevCo](#): > > Bring them to the negotiating table and offer them nuclear reactors? Is there some other option that’s been recommended that he’s missing? > I still don’t hear any other options being offered by either party. IIRC, Kerry suggested supplying them with the fuel that they are going to make. That way they wouldn’t need to build the processors to to create the stuff and what was sent into the country could be monitored. > [@SlyFrog](#): > > Even back in the “Iraq has WMDs,” I do not recall anyone seriously suggesting that they were within months of producing nuclear weapons, if they did not already have them (okay, no one seriously suggesting that outside of the fearmongering implications coming from certain far right nut balls). Actually, Bush said that Iraq was six months away from having nukes. He said that he read it in an IAEA report that does not and did not exist. He was, of course, “imprecise.” ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/57 "2005-02-10T14:55:53Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > More likely than who? More likely then themselves. I’m not saying they could be fully trusted before, but the louder we talk, I think the likelyhood increases. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/58 "2005-02-10T15:10:44Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Because we don’t hold ourselves to out-dated arms pacts that were nigh irrelevant, any other country is justified in pursuing a nuclear arms program? Maybe we should let Cuba have nuclear arms, because we are bullies, and have no moral high ground anymore. > > So, let me get this straight - if we didn’t invade Iraq, Iran wouldn’t be pursuing a nuclear arms program with such fervor? So them going about it at a leisurely pace is acceptable, but them hurring up isn’t and the US bears the blame? Sounds suspicous. Look - what is sauce for the goose etc. I don’t know where you people get this US Exceptionalism, the rules don’t apply to us crap. How many countries has Iran attacked recently, how many vile murdering dictatorships has it propped up in the last 50 years? The US has ceded the moral highground a long time ago, now it, in the manifestation of itself as foreign policy, is the biggest bully on the block with no claims at all to superiority. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/59 "2005-02-10T15:22:33Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Iran is in NO way justified persuing a NW program. The only country responsible is Iran. Actually, with all the bellicose rethoric the US is sending their way – along with Isarel’s not-so-veiled threats – IMO, they are amply justified in bolstering their defensive capabilities up to and including nuclear capabilities. Mind you, it’s NOT Iran that’s making threats against other nations. Moreover, there’s the little lesson of Iraq and NK to consider = no nukes, US will invade, take over your country, [openly admit to having them](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20050210/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_nuclear_12), earns you the US’s respect. Just becuase BushCo has unilaterally decided to play World’s Cop, doesn’t mean other nations have to subjugate to those desires – quite the contrary, as has been mentioned plenty of times in the past, all he’s doing is launching a new arms race. I guess congrats are in order… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244/60 "2005-02-10T15:40:39Z")
> [@RevCo](#): > > Iran is in NO way justified persuing a NW program. Is there any actual evidence that Iran _has_ a nuclear weapons program? John Bolton’s been frothing about this supposed program for a couple of years, but there’s been precious little to back him up, and now he’s out. Obviously Iran’s been working on a uranium enrichment program, but the obvious civilian uses of that technology preclude any but rabidly paranoid asshats from casually calling that a ‘weapons program’. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-shut-the-fuck-up-about-iran-already/289244.md?page=4)