# Rice to warn Europe about detainee problem **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 3, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852 "2005-12-03T02:31:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/1 "2005-12-03T02:31:36Z")
[Rice to warn Europe to back off over detainees](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051203/ts_nm/security_europe_rice_dc) As long as this kind of thing passes for diplomacy, why don’t we just go all the way? Have Bush give the finger live on BBC World new and say, “Attention so-called allies. We’ll do whatever the fuck we want, and you’ll LIKE it! Now if you’ll kindly rev up your European spin machines to start selling our brand of nonsense to your citizens. That is all. You may now return to eating cheese and surrending.” Honestly, what the fuck is going on that this kind of thing can be done with a straight face? Why do we feel we can patronize the rest of the world like this? I’m very ashamed of my country right now. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/2 "2005-12-03T02:50:55Z")
> [@Pogo (Walt Kelly)](#): > > …Traces of nobility, gentleness and courage persist in all people, do what we will to stamp out the trend…Resolve then, that on this very ground, with small flags waving and tinny blast on tiny trumpets, we shall meet the enemy, and not only may he be ours, he may be us.[@](http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm) ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/3 "2005-12-03T03:00:15Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Have Bush give the finger live on BBC World new and say, "Attention so-called allies. We’ll do whatever the fuck we want, and you’ll LIKE it! I’d actually respect the guy more if he did that, because you know that’s what he’s thinking. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/4 "2005-12-03T03:07:10Z")
**USA to Europe: Drop Dead** ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/5 "2005-12-03T03:09:05Z")
Er, not my personal opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/6 "2005-12-03T03:11:31Z")
It doesn’t surprise me. The tone has been “shut up and do what we tell you to” for quite a while now. It’s part of Bush’s “either you’re with us or your with the terrorists” rhetoric. > [@YahooNews](#): > > WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Secretary of State > Condoleezza Rice is expected to give allies in Europe a response next week to their pressure over Washington’s treatment of terrorism suspects: back off. > > For almost a month, the United States has been on the defensive, refusing to deny or confirm media reports the United States has held prisoners in secret in Eastern Europe and transported detainees incommunicado across the continent. I have a “concern” here. If as SOME claim, the US is not doing these things, then it would be an easy matter to provide some proof or even encourage European oversight/surveillance, and there would be no need to tell our flunkies (I mean allies!) to back off. Maybe Rice and her bosses are just worried that if Europe rebels against us, all our “secret detainees” will have to be moved elsewhere or disposed of. A refusal to confirm or deny, coupled with a passive aggressive “back off” tone sounds pretty guilty. Oh well, we’ve already burned plenty of bridges. We may as well burn them all. (sarcasm) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/7 "2005-12-03T04:37:51Z")
My god, I’m really starting to think that Bush is the reincarnation of Kaiser Wilhelm II. Nothing else can explain the hubris of this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/8 "2005-12-03T06:16:45Z")
His hubris is simple to understand. The man doesn’t listen to _anyone_ except sycophants and his wife. Anyone who dares to say that something might not be perfect with anything he’s involved in is not allowed in his presence ever again. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/9 "2005-12-03T12:28:51Z")
This is SOP. A while back some Irish politicans and anti-war groups complained about the US troops using Shannon Airport. This was a problem as Ireland is meant to neutral and not facilitate either side in a conflict. The US ambassador at the time came out and basically threatened the removal of all US business from Ireland if the troop movements were effected. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/10 "2005-12-03T12:36:41Z")
What’s going to happen if Europe doesn’t back off, though? Impose trade restrictions? Surely that’ll hurt US trade as much as European. Start a war? I highly doubt that. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/11 "2005-12-03T12:42:01Z")
> [@Dominic Mulligan](#): > > What’s going to happen if Europe doesn’t back off, though? Impose trade restrictions? Surely that’ll hurt US trade as much as European. Start a war? I highly doubt that. Worse. They’ll send Bush on another state visit :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/12 "2005-12-03T13:20:35Z")
When I was growing up, I read of people being taken to secret camps and tortured in the USSR. It never occurred to me that the USA would be doing that sort of thing today. Shame on the USA. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/13 "2005-12-03T13:41:14Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > When I was growing up, I read of people being taken to secret camps and tortured in the USSR. It never occurred to me that the USA would be doing that sort of thing today. Shame on the USA. That was totally different. Those camps were in Asia. ---
**Author:** ![Clock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@Clock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clock)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/14 "2005-12-03T15:04:17Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > **USA to Europe: Drop Dead** It may not be your opinion my friend but how many others of your ilk echo those words of yours and MEAN them? In any event kindly exclude the UK from mainland Europe, we are of a different breed 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/15 "2005-12-03T15:12:16Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Honestly, what the fuck is going on that this kind of thing can be done with a straight face? Why do we feel we can patronize the rest of the world like this? I’m very ashamed of my country right now. Because this administration is in bully mode, and they know there isn’t anyone around who’s bigger than the U.S. that could make them stop. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/16 "2005-12-03T15:42:43Z")
> [@Clock](#): > > …In any event kindly exclude the UK from mainland Europe, we are of a different breed 🆒 True. Most of the rest can at least cook. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/17 "2005-12-03T16:24:28Z")
> [@Clock](#): > > In any event kindly exclude the UK from mainland Europe, we are of a different breed 🆒 Correct. Y’all supported the ‘damn fool war’. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/18 "2005-12-03T16:29:53Z")
> [@Clock](#): > > It may not be your opinion my friend but how many others of your ilk echo those words of yours and MEAN them? I am not an ilk, I’m a cartoon horse. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/19 "2005-12-03T16:30:38Z")
Clock, meet Woosh. Woosh, meet clock. Welcome to the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852/20 "2005-12-03T17:45:58Z")
Odd, really. I didn’t see any quotes from Rice in that article that the US position was “back off”. That was entirely the characterization of the author of the article, based upon his conversations with an unnamed “European diplomat”. Nations in the EU have expressed concern about the treatment of terrorist detainees that the U.S. may or may not be holding in Europe, and she’s going over there to address these concerns, _which is her job_. Wouldn’t it be prudent to actually wait until we see what she says before breaking out the effigys and matches? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rice-to-warn-europe-about-detainee-problem/333852.md?page=2)