# Rich college student "liberal" dabblers must die. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 11, 2002, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992 "2002-04-11T06:34:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/21 "2002-04-11T17:23:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\*So these girls are Community Studies majors. One of the girls didn’t have a single class…she got credits for an independent study where she apparently just reads books in order to prepare herself for her field study hanging out with strawberry workers in Watsonville. Nothing wrong with helping out Strawberry workers in Watsonville- heck, my boyfriend does computers for the AFW, but it isn’t exactly the sort of thing that you need a whole quarter’s worth of background reading for. \*\* Pheh, if you want to give them a challenge, tell them they have to help the **Artichoke** farmers. No dainty picking of lovely smelling strawberries for these losers…instead make them learn to swing a machete and wear a backpack you fill with high-density vegetable matter. 😃 {minor hijack} I bike to work in Watsonville. I see a lot of weird things. Your post just explained one of them in advance. Thank you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/22 "2002-04-11T18:08:18Z")
Don’t take it personally, \*\*even sven \*\*, but attitudes such as yours are a major pet peeve of mine. It’s that automatic assumption that while your interest in something is sincere, “those people” are just doing it because it’s “cool”. I hear this type of stuff all the time: “I’m a Pagan because I _believe_ in it–_those idiots_ are Pagans just because it’s cool!” It just reeks of a smug, superior attitude. It’s as if since these girls come from money, and don’t seem as hardcore as you, they are airheads who have no convictions whatsoever. And the fact that their families are rich doesn’t mean that they can’t be liberal–look at **JFK, RFK & FDR**. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\* “Like, I hear there is this Buddist co-op in Colorado and I think I am going to visit there this summer” says a girl that in any other decade would have been a debutante…Look, people, liberalism is not the sort of thing you do as a tourist. Stopping by a co-op full of other rich white wanna-be buddists on your way to your daddy’s cabin is not a humanitarian effort. \…while you are out cavorting with those brave Colorado vegetarians who have probably never know a moment of hunger in their life. Patting yourself on the back for visiting a co-op is not exactly the kind of political action that is going to acheive anything in this country. \*\* First off, if you don’t know anything about this Buddhist Co-op, you really have no right to write them off as a bunch of “rich white wanna-be Buddhists”. Dropping out of society to live a life devoted to your religious ideals is not something that is easy in our culture. And it sounds like you’re assuming that this girl’s visit to their Co-op is worthless. Even if she’s doing it because is sounds “cool”, I think that even making an effort to expose yourself to another way of living is valuable. And no matter how much of an airhead she is, I bet she will learn something about their Buddhist beliefs. Just observing their communal lifestyle will cause her to think…and maybe even re-evaluate her materialistic lifestyle. I really admire her for taking the time to visit this co-op. Not many people I know would even _think_ about doing something like that! > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by even sven \* > \*\* The crowing glory of the Community Studies major is the field study. You spend two quarters not doing any schoolwork whatsoever. Instead you participate in some kind of project that “helps” some kind of community. Although options exist in the area, almost all Community Studies majors get their daddies to finance long trips to wonderfully exotic third world countries, where they can then gush about all the epiphanies and self realization that they gained from being around people that are neither rich nor white. Actually learning anything or doing something useful never seems to factor in. It is all about feeling empowered and fulfilled by your third-world experience. \*\* Wow…you are really belittling what sounds like a great program! Going to a third world county to participate in a project that helps improve a foreign community sounds fantastic! My impression is that they would have to learn about the culture, history and problems facing the community, and would then work on a project to make their lives better. Yet you dismiss this by saying, _“Actually learning anything or doing something useful never seems to factor in”_ Wha? Am I missing something here? > [@](#): > > \*\*So these girls are Community Studies majors. One of the girls didn’t have a single class…she got credits for an independent study where she apparently just reads books in order to prepare herself for her field study hanging out with strawberry workers in Watsonville…but it isn’t exactly the sort of thing that you need a whole quarter’s worth of background reading for. At this point in your life, in this part of the state, Mexicans should not be so exotic that you need a huge amount of preparation to begin working with them. \*\* I can think of a **lot** of reading that would be very important. You would want to know about the history and culture of Mexican immigrants. And understanding the long history of the fight for the rights of migrant agricultural laborers is not exactly something you could grasp in an afternoon! If you’re going to be working with a group of people from a _vastly_ different culture than yours, I don’t think you could ever be overprepared! > [@](#): > > \*\*I just can’t help but think what these poor strawberry workers are going to do when these well dressed blonde college students desend on to them as their pet project. Don’t these girls see a little bit of a problem with the fact that they are well fed, well financed college students using these people as a mix of gunia pigs and lab rats as they BS their way through a college career that these strawberry workers could never dream of providing for their kids. Does that ever bother them in the least? \*\* What would these strawberry workers think when they see these college student descend on them? How 'bout: “\*\*THANK GOD! \*\*With most of society turning their backs on us, these educated young people are coming here to actually **help us**!” Seriously, California has a long history of mistreating and looking down up its migrant workforce. These college kids, whom you so snidely dismiss, are probably going to be a blessing to them. Not only will they help them improve their working conditions and educate them on relevant labor laws–but they will also show them that at least some people in our society still care! Please don’t take this personally, **even sven** , but your attitude seems very condescending and immature. According to you these girls don’t pass some sort of liberal litmus test because their families are rich and they don’t have to starve in order to finance their education. They take classes on community studies that you deem simplistic and shallow. They visit Buddhist communities on their vacation–but you’ve decided that this is worthless. They go to third world countries to participate in helpful projects–but no…this doesn’t count–they only do this to feel “empowered”. They discuss feminist issues…aid migrant farmworkers…participate in protests…but none of this is good enough for you. They’re just not as liberal as you are, eh? Get off your high horse, **even sven**! In today’s dollar sign world, most people don’t care about anything but making money. And most young people going to college these days are picking careers that will put them on a path to getting rich. There are so many business majors nowadays that it’s becoming an epidemic! Yet these girls choose a major dedicated to actually _helping people_ and _changing the world_. And you put them down for this? They’re just not as dedicated as you, as hardworking as you, as poor as you, as intelligent as you. They aren’t “working our ass off”, studying _film_, like you are. They are so _beneath_ you! Your judgmental & superior attitude seems to be the exact _opposite_ of what most would consider to be **liberal**. I, for one, am pretty damn glad that there are girls like this who actually seem aware of, and concerned about–the world we live in. They are a far cry from the types of girls I went to college with. The only protest they would attend is if _Bloomingdales_ stopped accepting _American Express_! Lighten up & stop judging others so harshly. Especially those that are at least doing _something_ to better the world. Even if they don’t live up to your lofty standards. ---
**Author:** ![Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@Bad\_News\_Baboon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bad_News_Baboon)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/23 "2002-04-11T18:19:29Z")
here’s where I am confused: How about if I wrote: I was on the bus this morning, happily going to class. Behind me, two girls are talking about their plans for the summer. Typical college student stuff. Then the subject of Colorado comes up. “Like, I hear there is this Country Club in Colorado and I think I am going to visit there this summer” says a girl that in any other decade would have been a street urchin. "Oh wow. It is so cool that they are like living like that! They even use Linen! " says girl #2. “Yeah, like, they even have polo fields!!! It is so brave.” It’s not the best example, but you get the idea - if I wrote a similar post was about poor people doing the equivalent, a good many posters here would be on me like flies on shit. while **Angel of the Lord** says that the OP is not about moneyed people per say, I disagree. The whole OP reeks of sour grapes. and I think its bullshit. If the OP felt that way about dabblers that would be one thing. But then, I have met some ‘poor’ dabblers myself (having grown up in a not wealthy neighborhood). You know what? We had the same bores at my school too, regardless of income. In college I met fellow art student who were poor and were not talented what so ever. I met rich ones who had immense talent. and vise versa. The point is: Boorish behavior (or talent) knows no financial limitations. The insinuation that only poor people work hard and therefore are MORE deserving is pure and absolute bullshit. I think even sven is more pissed at the fact that these students have money to fund their ‘dabbles’ more than anything else - at least that is how I read the OP. and if that is the case, get over yourself. I am QUITE sure that there is some leftist somewhere out there much more poor than you, who looks at YOU the way you looked upon the debutantes. (“wow, how grand for her that she could afford going to college. I wish I could!”) I mean, jesh, if they aren’t affecting you personally, why do you give a shit what these girls believe? Every little bit counts, doesn’t it? And its the end result that matters, right? p.s. for the record **Mr. Miskatonic** , farmers I have known say that picking strawberries is bare none, the worst job in picking. The constant bending WAY down and the fact that they are easily mashed makes for a hard job. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/24 "2002-04-11T18:40:18Z")
[quote] What would these strawberry workers think when they see these college student descend on them? How 'bout: “THANK GOD! With most of society turning their backs on us, these educated young people are coming here to actually help us!” > [@](#): > > Seriously, California has a long history of mistreating and looking down up its migrant workforce. These college kids, whom you so snidely dismiss, are probably going to be a blessing to them. Not only will they help them improve their working conditions and educate them on relevant labor laws–but they will also show them that at least some people in our society still care! How can some earnest college kid, with even the best intentions, educate migrant workers about labor laws? Community Studies is not a law degree. How, exactly, is a college kid going to improve the working conditions for migrant workers? I admire anyone who wishes to help the poor and disenfrachised, but you also need some actual real-world expertise to do some real good. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/25 "2002-04-11T18:48:31Z")
Yup, I’m sure those Mexican strawberry pickers would much rather have somebody help them understand a Hitchcock film than some assistance picking strawberries. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/26 "2002-04-11T19:06:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kyla \* > **Then I noticed who the OP was. FTR, even sven does in fact attend my alma mater. The delightful place where they tried to outlaw hate (a technicality kept it off the ballot in 2000), have already succeeded in outlawing nuclear weapons, where the city council regularly issues statements concerning foreign policy (they highly disapprove of the Chinese takeover of Tibet - watch out, Beijing!) - and where on any given day, you’ll see kids sleeping on the sidewalk.** Sounds like Berkeley… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/27 "2002-04-11T19:38:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Frink \* > **What would these strawberry workers think when they see these college student descend on them? How 'bout: “THANK GOD! With most of society turning their backs on us, these educated young people are coming here to actually help us!” Seriously, California has a long history of mistreating and looking down up its migrant workforce. These college kids, whom you so snidely dismiss, are probably going to be a blessing to them. Not only will they help them improve their working conditions and educate them on relevant labor laws–but they will also show them that at least some people in our society still care!** 😕 A bunch of college kids is going to improve the migrant workers’ working conditions? How? And if it’s that easy, why hasn’t the annual influx of such college kids effected a change yet? This whole concept smacks of paternalism to me. “Oh, those wonderful rich white kids! They’re coming to **help** us poor Mexican farm workers!” I imagine that the more likely reaction would be, “Look, more hands to help harvest! Wait…why are they picking one strawberry for every five I pick? They’re so SLOW! And why don’t they shut up instead of droning on and on how badly we’re treated?! They’re driving us crazy! Oh, gee, they went home at lunch…at least it’s quiet now…” I just have a visceral reaction to the idea that any minority ethnic and/or economic group is expected to be grateful that one of the least-influential segments of the majority society is willing to be acknowledge their existence, mostly in a condescending manner. Or that the solution to any of their problems must come from outside. That wasn’t very coherent, I’m afraid…I just have trouble articulating **why** this whole thing gives me the social willies. jayjay ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/28 "2002-04-11T19:51:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jayjay \* > **That wasn’t very coherent, I’m afraid…I just have trouble articulating why this whole thing gives me the social willies.** Well, it was coherent enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/29 "2002-04-11T20:53:52Z")
I wrote a big long response somewhere, but it seems to have gotten lost. Oh well…I’ll return to this when I get home from classes… In the meantime, my boyfriend does computers for the UFW, not the AFW as I typed it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Red\_Menace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/82dd89/32.png) [@The\_Red\_Menace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Red_Menace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/30 "2002-04-11T21:08:31Z")
To those who wish to escape their too liberal universities may I welcome you to [North Dakota State University](http://www.ndsu.edu). Here it is acceptable to talk of being “jewed” in a bad business deal, “faggot” is in every day slang, and the creationists frequently attempt to overrun anthropology and biology classes. Believe me, all of you at rich kid liberal colleges, the flip side is much worse. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/31 "2002-04-11T21:30:28Z")
The Dead Kennedys wrote a song about these kinds of people. One of my favorite songs in the masterful DK opus. I bring you… [Holiday in Cambodia](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/deadkennedys/holidayincambodia.html) ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/32 "2002-04-11T23:18:44Z")
**jayjay** , it’s obvious you have no experience in development. The students in this field are very commited and spend a large amount of their time thinking about the sorts of issues you accuse them of. They’re not stupid you know, and what do you suppose they study in their courses? These social willies you have problems articulating sound more like guilt that other people are trying to affect change more than you. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/33 "2002-04-11T23:33:22Z")
**Matt** , in using the term “neo-liberal” (with a deliberate hyphenation), I was referring to the sort of kids mentioned in the OP–the young, idealistic college students eager to embrace any liberal ideal that happens to make themselves feel good. I suppose I could have used a different term, but I thought it would be evident in context to whom I was referring. Sorry 'bout that. ---
**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/34 "2002-04-12T00:52:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*I did a community studies course once that consisted mostly of sitting on couches in the women’s center and bitching about life and reading fairly simplistic feminist musings. It was a great class- we all need to take a break every once in a while and do something fun. \*\* Whoa! Pahtay! 😛 You think this is new **even sven**? As **Maeglin** points out, people write popular songs about it. We are the folk song army, Every one of us cares. We all hate poverty, war, and injustice Unlike the rest of you squares. There are innocuous folk songs, yeah, But we regard 'em with scorn. The folks who sing 'em have no social conscience, Why, they don’t even care if Jimmy Crack Corn. If you feel dissatisfaction, Strum your frustrations away. Some people may prefer action, But give me a folk song any old day. “We Are the Folk Song Army” (1965) by Tom Lehrer (who, I believe, teaches at Santa Cruz) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Frink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Mr.Frink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Frink)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/35 "2002-04-12T09:15:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*How can some earnest college kid, with even the best intentions, educate migrant workers about labor laws? Community Studies is not a law degree. How, exactly, is a college kid going to improve the working conditions for migrant workers? > I admire anyone who wishes to help the poor and disenfrachised, but you also need some actual real-world expertise to do some real good. \*\* These “earnest college kids” may not have law degrees, but they will provide a valuable tool: knowledge. They’ll know all the details of the history of migrant labor organization in the U.S. And not only will they have _read_ all about \*\*Cesar Chavez \*\*; but many of them will want to _be_ \*\*Cesar Chavez \*\*!!! As the [course description](http://reg.ucsc.edu/soc/aci/winter2002/cmmu.html#100p)for one of the Community Studies classes puts it: **The goal of this seminar is to learn how to organize a revolution**. And let’s not kid ourselves…these student won’t be just walking into a strawberry patch rallying the workers–I’m sure that they will work hand-in-hand with the Farmworker’s Union. If you’ve ever been involved with a labor union you’ll know that one of the biggest problems they face is stagnation. These kids will provide a pure shot of energy. And not only will they come armed with the latest ideas and tactics from labor movements worldwide, but they’ll also be able to provide help in organizing, growing and strengthening the union of farmworkers. So: New Ideas & Tactics + Energy of idealistic students == Stronger Union == Better working conditions! ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/36 "2002-04-12T09:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Frink \* > **The goal of this seminar is to learn how to organize a revolution.** Oh, that’s encouraging. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/37 "2002-04-12T12:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Frink \* > \*\*but many of them will want to _be_ \*\*Cesar Chavez \*\*!!! \*\* And, human nature being what it is…1 in 10 will actually try to be Chavez and 1 in 100 of those will actually manage to do something. The rest will become ad executives for firms based in second tier cities because the early movers got the NYC and LA gigs. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/38 "2002-04-12T14:19:22Z")
All I can say is that anyone who defines being vegetarian as “brave” deserves whatever shit is flung at them. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/39 "2002-04-12T14:21:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by John Corrado \* > \*\*All I can say is that anyone who defines being vegetarian as “brave” deserves whatever shit is flung at them. \*\* Well, hopefully it’s vegan shit. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992/40 "2002-04-12T14:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The rest will become ad executives for firms based in second tier cities because the early movers got the NYC and LA gigs. Or maybe the rest will go on to found free eyeglass distributors or drill bore-holes so that villagers don’t have to walk 5 miles for water, or set up apiculture programs for supplementary income, or teach at mission schools like the one Nelson Mandela went to, or start paper recyling programs so that kids can have affordable writing paper , … Maybe they don’t want to be like Chavez at all because they realize how stupid that would be. Maybe they just want to contribute to making peoples lives a bit easier or provide them more opportunities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rich-college-student-liberal-dabblers-must-die/102992.md?page=3)