# Richard Feynman was not a sexual predator **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860 "2016-03-22T14:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/1 "2016-03-22T14:19:39Z")
In contrast to this author’s claims: > [@](#): > > The problem is that the facts are against any excuses. Feynman pretended to be an undergraduate to get young women to sleep with him. He targeted the wives of male grad students. He went to bars and practiced a technique that isn’t so different from the reprehensible “game” of the pick-up artists (PUAs).[1] This is all public record, including anecdotes in his own words from his sorta-memoirs Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman and What Do You Care What Other People Think?[2] But I suspect the issue is that the author and I disagree on what makes a person a “sexual predator.” Feynman did not exactly pretend to be an undergraduate. He was, post-war, a very young professor, comparatively, and describes attending a dance n which he was surprised that every young woman he talked to was keeping away from him after a few minutes. The mystery was solved when one woman said to him that he was a damn liar and walked away – he realized that they all avoided him after he told them (truthfully) that he had been at Los Alamos and helped design the atomic bomb, and they all thought he was bullshitting. So he tried the reverse tactic: not saying anything about his past, and ended up being befriended by two sophomores who, in his words, we’re both very motherly in advising him he shouldn’t be ashamed of being a freshman at his age, because a lot of guys were starting over on the GI Bill after the war. He then comes clean with them and they are both upset with him for tricking them. He doesn’t sleep with them. Nothing in either book describes his targeting the wives of male grad students, so I have no idea how to respond to that. The PUA accusation is the most undefined. According to Feynman, his “technique,” was, “You just ask them.” [to sleep with you] But even if he did play PUA games, I don’t agree that “sexual predator,” is a fair description. I admit it’s a term that different people can define differently, but I argue that it’s an unreasonably pejorative term to use in Feynman’s case. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/2 "2016-03-22T14:26:58Z")
When people abuse terms like rape or sexual predator to mean ‘anyone who does anything I don’t like’ they really cheapen a serious issue. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/3 "2016-03-22T14:28:56Z")
Even worse he was a “nice” guy 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/4 "2016-03-22T14:37:51Z")
He should have laid everything out for them in a diagram. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/5 "2016-03-22T14:55:40Z")
I haven’t read any of Feynman’s books of anecdotes (or anything nontechnical by or about him), but I do know that there are three biographies of Feynman out there – one by James Glieck, one by Lawrence Krauss, and a third. From a quick survey on the internet, the charge of “pretending to be a student” seems to be associated with Krauss’ book. Perhaps he describes it that way, or cites someone who does. In any event, the _Galileo’s Pendulum_ piece clearly drew from other sources besides Feynman’s own books. You’re not the only one to have disagreements with that blog piece. See here as well: > **[Richard Feynman is not allowed to have sex.](https://theuncertaintyblog.wordpress.com/2014/07/16/richard-feynman-is-not-allowed-to-have-sex/)** > > A few days ago, a blog article was published by Matthew Francis called, “The Problem with Richard Feynman”. It got picked up by a few outlets, including 3 Quarks Daily. In the post, Fra… ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/6 "2016-03-22T16:18:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > The PUA accusation is the most undefined. According to Feynman, his “technique,” was, “You just ask them.” [to sleep with you] > > But even if he did play PUA games, I don’t agree that “sexual predator,” is a fair description. I admit it’s a term that different people can define differently, but I argue that it’s an unreasonably pejorative term to use in Feynman’s case. It’s been a while since I’ve read Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman, but I recall him getting some advice after striking out at a bar. The advisor told Feynman to be rude/disdainful of women in order to get them interested rather than pursue. Very much like “negging.” ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/7 "2016-03-22T16:25:56Z")
Of course he was. Look at the OP. He is a Physicist Under Attack. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/8 "2016-03-22T17:22:01Z")
The fact that an MIT science nerd managed to figure out how to get laid on a regular basis only only makes me admire him more. Game recognized! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/9 "2016-03-22T17:26:40Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > It’s been a while since I’ve read Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman, but I recall him getting some advice after striking out at a bar. The advisor told Feynman to be rude/disdainful of women in order to get them interested rather than pursue. Very much like “negging.” As I recall, he tried the technique with some success, but, found it distasteful and didn’t keep using it. ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/10 "2016-03-22T17:53:36Z")
Let me preface this by recommending both books of anecdotes, particularly the first, _Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman!_ It’s also been a while since I’ve read it, but the key part of the ‘advice’ he was given that I remember was to ask very early (specifically, before buying them anything such as a drink or meal) whether or she was going to sleep with him at the end of the night. On a no, he was told to proceed on to other prospects, and on a yes continue as usual with a woman he’d just met at a bar, buying drinks and meal etc before the expected end of the evening. Feynman reported a surprising rate of yeses when using this strategy, a much higher rate than he had found when asking for sex at the end of a standard evening after spending hours with a woman. These are definitely non-standard dating tactics, particularly for the time, but at least this aspect of the advice does not strike me as inherently misogynistic. The part about buying things does seem rather… mercantile, but given that the man paying for everything in a bar was pretty much ubiquitous behavior at the time with or without the ‘advice’, I don’t think the ‘advice’ should be faulted for it. ---
**Author:** ![quiltguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e47774/32.png) [@quiltguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quiltguy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/11 "2016-03-22T17:58:00Z")
Does Sheldon Cooper know about this? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/12 "2016-03-22T18:18:21Z")
He did have a nasty habit of busting o-rings. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/13 "2016-03-22T18:37:46Z")
Well, ‘sexual predator’ is putting it a bit harshly, but _Surely You’re Joking_ makes it abundantly clear that the man had a seriously skeevy attitude towards women. Consider: > [@](#): > > All during the next day I built up my psychology differently: I adopted the attitude that those bar girls are all bitches, that they aren’t worth anything, and all they’re in there for is to get you to buy them a drink, and they’re not going to give you a goddamn thing; I’m not going to be a gentleman to such worthless bitches, and so on. I learned it till it was automatic. Also, after this strategy at first fails to work, and one of the ‘bitches’ gets him to buy her a sandwich without immediately reciprocating with sex, he calls her ‘worse than a whore’—where I’ll let everyone draw the obvious implication. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/14 "2016-03-22T18:57:48Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Well, ‘sexual predator’ is putting it a bit harshly, but _Surely You’re Joking_ makes it abundantly clear that the man had a seriously skeevy attitude towards women. Consider: > > Also, after this strategy at first fails to work, and one of the ‘bitches’ gets him to buy her a sandwich without immediately reciprocating with sex, he calls her ‘worse than a whore’—where I’ll let everyone draw the obvious implication. I’m going on memory of the book rightnow, but as I recall, he tried this technique and _really didn’t like himself when he did it._ So he abandoned it, even though it worked. Feynmann was pretty big on trying to adjust his mindset in a clinical way (he did a whole chapter on mediation and his analysis of it) and did not always succeed ro end up with what he wanted. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/15 "2016-03-22T19:02:50Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But even if he did play PUA games, I don’t agree that “sexual predator,” is a fair description. Agreed. A womanizer as such is no sexual predator, and the PUA approach is dishonest and cynical and exploitive, but hardly predatory. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/16 "2016-03-22T19:11:41Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I’m going on memory of the book rightnow, but as I recall, he tried this technique and _really didn’t like himself when he did it._ So he abandoned it, even though it worked. His reaction when the technique ends up working after all is to call it ‘terrific’: > [@](#): > > The master was right. So the lesson was terrific! Though, to be fair, he has some qualms about trying it on _ordinary_ girls: > [@](#): > > On the way to the bar I was working up nerve to try the master’s lesson on an ordinary girl. After all, you don’t feel so bad disrespecting a bar girl who’s trying to get you to buy her drinks–but a nice, ordinary, Southern girl? And yes, he does eventually cease using the method. This seems to be about the extent of his remorse: > [@](#): > > But no matter how effective the lesson was, I never really used it after that. I didn’t enjoy doing it that way. So he ‘didn’t enjoy it’. Nothing about how degrading it is towards the women he tried it on, nothing about how twisted it is to believe that ‘bar girls’ essentially owed you sex if you get them free drinks. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/17 "2016-03-22T19:29:21Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > : > Also, after this strategy at first fails to work, and one of the ‘bitches’ gets him to buy her a sandwich without immediately reciprocating with sex, he calls her ‘worse than a whore’—where I’ll let everyone draw the obvious implication. I can certainly see him thinking two things. 1. Let us reapply the technique. 2. Logically speaking, that is a true statement. Nobody ever said experimentation and logic was pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/18 "2016-03-22T19:46:32Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > So he ‘didn’t enjoy it’. Nothing about how degrading it is towards the women he tried it on, nothing about how twisted it is to believe that ‘bar girls’ essentially owed you sex if you get them free drinks. As I understand it, their game was to hint that sex would be in the cards if you bought them drinks. I don’t agree that anything on either side of that is either admirable or degrading. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/19 "2016-03-22T19:54:59Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > His reaction when the technique ends up working after all is to call it ‘terrific’: Terrific does not automatically mean ‘good’. Especially when Feynmann is talking. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/20 "2016-03-22T19:55:25Z")
I loved that book. Perhaps I will re-read it. > [@](#): > > But no matter how effective the lesson was, I never really used it after that. I didn’t enjoy doing it that way. sounds to me like a man who finds it degrading. There are other possibilities, of course, but that seems like the most probable. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860.md?page=2)