# Richard Feynman was not a sexual predator **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 22, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860 "2016-03-22T14:19:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/41 "2016-03-23T07:39:19Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Then I’m sure you can name some concepts. I went into it back as a teen, before I wised up. While I can tell you some things that aren’t misogynistic (as that element hadn’t taken over yet), I can’t tell you a single thing that isn’t about trying to get women to have sex with you. Yeah sure. I learned lots of things about showing interest in people without _faking_ interest, connecting with people (e.g. finding something of mutual interest), giving the right level of eye contact, ways to make people feel more relaxed and willing to open up etc. The techniques don’t have names, but I never claimed they did. They’ve been very useful to me in all kinds of situation, and crucially, I don’t feel like a guy trying techniques any more. I’m just me being myself but with more awareness of social cues and how best to present myself. > [@](#): > > And while I never saw the book you mentioned, I checked, and it is explicitly about making women be attracted to you. RSD is not a book, it’s just a set of ideas / advice. Yes the primary selling point of the course is that it will make participants have more success in dating. Obviously I need to pick a PUA example to try to refute the claim that PUA is all about cynical manipulation. But much of the bulk of the course is just standard conversational skills advice. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/42 "2016-03-23T09:20:14Z")
This won’t speak directly to his habits or attitudes specifically regarding sleeping with women, but it’s worth noting Feynman’s sexist attitudes more broadly. One description that’s stuck with me: > [@W. Daniel Hillis](#): > > The charming side of Richard helped people forgive him for his uncharming characteristics. For example, in many ways Richard was a sexist. Whenever it came time for his daily bowl of soup he would look around for the nearest “girl” and ask if she would fetch it to him. It did not matter if she was the cook, an engineer, or the president of the company. I once asked a female engineer who had just been a victim of this if it bothered her. “Yes, it really annoys me,” she said. “On the other hand, he is the only one who ever explained quantum mechanics to me as if I could understand it.” That was the essence of Richard’s charm. (Taken from: [Richard Feynman and The Connection Machine - The Long Now](http://longnow.org/essays/richard-feynman-connection-machine/)) [I agree with Half Man Half Wit that “product of the times” is no reason to dismiss discussion of anyone’s flaws. Especially, in this case, since many people still seem to look at Feynman’s way with women as part of what makes him so great…] ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/43 "2016-03-23T13:32:57Z")
I’ve read both Feynman’s books and the Glieck biography. The only specific reference I recall from the Glieck bio is that Feynman was notorious for sleeping with the wives of his colleagues. There was no suggestion that these trysts were anything other than consensual. Clearly, he was no respecter of the institution of marriage. ---
**Author:** ![chaika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chaika/32/405_2.png) [@chaika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaika)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/44 "2016-03-23T14:37:28Z")
He sounds like a creep. “Bar girls” vs. “nice ordinary Southern girls”? Yuck. Anyone who believes that buying a drink for someone should automatically lead to sex has a very screwed-up view of human relationships. But from the descriptions on this thread, I wouldn’t call him a sexual predator. That sort of inflated rhetoric is prevalent these days, and it only serves to trivialize serious issues. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/45 "2016-03-23T17:11:22Z")
Laura Kipnis writes, in an essay that got her investigated by the Title IX “police:” > [@](#): > > When I was in college, hooking up with professors was more or less part of the curriculum. Admittedly, I went to an art school, and mine was the lucky generation that came of age in that too-brief interregnum after the sexual revolution and before AIDS turned sex into a crime scene replete with perpetrators and victims—back when sex, even when not so great or when people got their feelings hurt, fell under the category of life experience. It’s not that I didn’t make my share of mistakes, or act stupidly and inchoately, but it was embarrassing, not traumatizing. She just too brainwashed by the patriarchy to know how abused and victimized she was? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/46 "2016-03-23T17:57:17Z")
> [@chaika](#): > > He sounds like a creep. “Bar girls” vs. “nice ordinary Southern girls”? Yuck. Anyone who believes that buying a drink for someone should automatically lead to sex has a very screwed-up view of human relationships. You’re still looking at him through the prism of 2016. In the late '40s and into the '50s, women who went into those bars mostly went for the purpose of sex. **HER** expectation, every bit as much as his, was that he was going to buy some drinks and then they were going back to her place or his place. Women didn’t go to meet Mr. Right; they went to get laid. When both sides of the relationship have the same understanding of the purpose of the evening, the fact that you don’t approve doesn’t necessarily make it screwed-up. The dichotomy between nice ordinary Southern girls and bar girls seems yucky now because it’s a dichotomy that largely no longer exists, but back in the day it was very real. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/47 "2016-03-23T18:07:09Z")
THEODOTUS: Caesar: you are a stranger here, and not conversant with our laws. The kings and queens of Egypt may not marry except with their own royal blood. Ptolemy and Cleopatra are born king and consort just as they are born brother and sister. BRITANNUS (shocked): Caesar: this is not proper. THEODOTUS (outraged): How! CAESAR (recovering his self-possession): Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/48 "2016-03-23T18:20:45Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > George Washington had slaves? No, he kept them but he didn’t have them – that was Jefferson, who had them. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/49 "2016-03-23T18:29:57Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > The context is fairly clear, though. Not really. Not with Feynmann. I believe he used the word frequently to describe things that were impressive but not necessarily good. Things like the Atomic Bomb explosion, or reading about the backwardness of Tannu Tuva. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/50 "2016-03-23T18:40:02Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > She just too brainwashed by the patriarchy to know how abused and victimized she was? Not as far as I can tell. It’s obviously completely fine to have consensual sex with any and as many partners as one pleases. But, it’s just as obviously (one would have hoped) not fine to objectify, degrade, and disrespect people to goad them into having sex with you. I’m somewhat shocked and disturbed that this needs any further explanation. And anyway, what the hell was the argument here supposed to be anyway? Kipnis liked to have sex with lots of professors, therefore the ‘bar girls’ must have, too? Hence, Feynman really did them a favor by treating them as worthless bitches? > [@slash2k](#): > > **HER** expectation, every bit as much as his, was that he was going to buy some drinks and then they were going back to her place or his place. Except, of course, that’s not what happened: they refused to hold up their end of the bargain, which is what got Feynman all riled up. So evidently, it _wasn’t_ their expectation to exchange drinks for sex—that was due to Feynman. And still, even if that had been the deal, this doesn’t justify Feynman considering them to be ‘worthless bitches’, or calling them ‘worse than a whore’. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/51 "2016-03-23T18:47:20Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Not really. Not with Feynmann. I believe he used the word frequently to describe things that were impressive but not necessarily good. Things like the Atomic Bomb explosion, or reading about the backwardness of Tannu Tuva. Yes, and I suppose when Feynman used the words ‘worthless’ and ‘bitch’, he really meant ‘nice young lady’, and ‘you’re worse than a whore’ is just his way of saying ‘that was a nice evening, let’s do it again sometime!’. Look, I can understand having reverence for the man. He was a great physicist, and nothing in this thread challenges this. But by his own account, he was also quite capable of degrading and disrespecting women in order to get them to have sex with him. There’s just nothing there that justifies your reading, except your wish to read it a certain way. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/52 "2016-03-23T19:07:17Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Not really. Not with Feynmann. I believe he used the word frequently to describe things that were impressive but not necessarily good. Things like the Atomic Bomb explosion, or reading about the backwardness of Tannu Tuva. Yeah, like saying there was “a terrific boom” or something when describing an explosion. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/53 "2016-03-23T19:37:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > THEODOTUS: Caesar: you are a stranger here, and not conversant with our laws. The kings and queens of Egypt may not marry except with their own royal blood. Ptolemy and Cleopatra are born king and consort just as they are born brother and sister. > > BRITANNUS (shocked): Caesar: this is not proper. > > THEODOTUS (outraged): How! > > CAESAR (recovering his self-possession): Pardon him, Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature. What you the spirit of the ages call Is nothing but the spirit of you all… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/54 "2016-03-23T21:38:28Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Kipnis liked to have sex with lots of professors, therefore the ‘bar girls’ must have, too? Hence, Feynman really did them a favor by treating them as worthless bitches? No. Kipnis’ article is here to rebut the inference that it was predatory for Feynman to have sex with college-age women. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/55 "2016-03-23T22:41:28Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. Kipnis’ article is here to rebut the inference that it was predatory for Feynman to have sex with college-age women. I haven’t seen anybody make that argument, though. And the logic here is again skewed: just because Kipnis wasn’t a victim in this kind of situation, doesn’t mean that it’s a-OK in all cases. (Obviously, that’s not to say that such behavior is necessarily predatory, either.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/56 "2016-03-23T22:53:08Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I haven’t seen anybody make that argument, though. Did you it read the article linked to in the OP? It makes the claim in its second paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/57 "2016-03-23T23:09:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Did you it read the article linked to in the OP? It makes the claim in its second paragraph. I did, and I’m honestly not seeing it? Certainly, the second paragraph implies that Feynman was a sexual predator, but the reasons given are not his sleeping with college-age women, but his using deception, degradation, and humiliation to get these women to sleep with him. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/58 "2016-03-24T00:25:42Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I haven’t seen anybody make that argument, though. And the logic here is again skewed: just because Kipnis wasn’t a victim in this kind of situation, doesn’t mean that it’s a-OK in all cases. (Obviously, that’s not to say that such behavior is necessarily predatory, either.) The article to which I linked in the OP certainly invites the reader to conclude that it is _per se_ predatory. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/59 "2016-03-24T01:51:40Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I did, and I’m honestly not seeing it? Certainly, the second paragraph implies that Feynman was a sexual predator, but the reasons given are not his sleeping with college-age women, but his using deception, degradation, and humiliation to get these women to sleep with him. Really? From the article, all bolding mine: > [@](#): > > **But what if a hero was a sexual predator, someone who admitted to some really creepy behavior?** What if this person also happens to be a Nobel laureate, a founder of a whole field of research, and an admirable thinker on a number of complicated topics? How do we deal with the two realities together? > > In short, how do we cope with the problem of Richard Feynman? A little later on: > [@](#): > > They’re about his safecracking, his antics, his refusal to wear neckties, his bongos, his rejection of authority, **his sexual predation on vulnerable women**. And, in an update, responding to a defense of Feynman on another site: > [@](#): > > Yes, society was more sexist than it currently is, but we’re hardly beyond **defending predators in our culture.** That’s three direct statements describing Feynman as a sexual predator, in an article that clocks in at a little over 2000 words, footnotes included. I’m not sure how the author could have made her intent any clearer. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860/60 "2016-03-24T02:54:49Z")
**Half Man Half Wit** ’s point was that, yes, the article describes Feynman as a sexual predator, but not simply for sleeping with college-age women. Rather, the article describes Feynman as a sexual predator for using deception, degradation, and humiliation to get these women to sleep with him. I am just repeating the words **Half Man Half Wit** wrote, but as they seem to have gone unread the first time, perhaps this is of some use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-feynman-was-not-a-sexual-predator/749860.md?page=4)