# Richard III, Coeur de Lion
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 2, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159 "2003-01-02T05:11:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/1 "2003-01-02T05:11:07Z")
I’ve read two rumors about Richard III, aka Richard the Lionhearted.
The first: He never spoke English, just German.
The second: He was killed by an arrow shot from a man with a tin pot on his head.
Personally, I can’t see how either could be true. To the first, Richard was born in Oxford and raised in England. How could he magically not speak English?
To the second- I’m guessing that tin pots were uncommon in the late 12th century, and that this is probably the result of some errant translation.
However, my skepticism is no authority. What’s the Straight Dope?
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/2 "2003-01-02T05:14:15Z")
Just a quick note: Richard _Coeur de Lion_ was Richard _I_ in the list of English royalty, not III. That was the Richard of “Princes in the Tower, Bosworth Field” fame/infamy.
---
### Author:  [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/3 "2003-01-02T05:14:33Z")
I am fairly sure he was English by birth and thus spoke it.
A tin pot? I think someone was writing under the influence.
But I don’t really know such obscure facts, either.
---
### Author:  [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/4 "2003-01-02T05:17:03Z")
My first thought on seeing ‘Tin pot’ was the helmet of those metal suits they used to wear. some of the helmets looked like upturned pots wit slits in them
---
### Author:  [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/5 "2003-01-02T05:17:20Z")
Ah, darnit. I had the III and I mixed up.
Question 1 applies to Richard III and 2 applies to Richard I. I’m not sure where Richard III was born.
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/6 "2003-01-02T05:29:43Z")
Right. Richard I was born at Oxford, Richard III was born at Fotheringay Castle. That bit’s a tad mixed up there, **Daoloth**. Where Richard I would have had no need to speak any English at all, it is more likely that Richard III did (and I sincerely doubt the German bit. I think you have him mixed up with George I).
As to Richard I’s death:
> [@](#):
>
> Richard, in besieging the castle of Chalus in March, 1199, was wounded by a shot from the cross bow of one Bertrand de Gourdon who being asked what induced him to attempt the kings life, replied, ‘You killed my father and my brother with your own hand, and designed to put me to an ignominious death.’ Richard then ordered Gourdon to be set at liberty and allowed a sum of money; but the savage Marcadée, who commanded the Brabançons, caused him to be flayed alive. Richard died of his wound on the 6th of April, 1199
From [Genuki.](http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/royalty/kingr.html)
---
### Author:  [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/7 "2003-01-02T05:52:42Z")
Well, while previewing I notice that **Ice Wolf** has beaten me to the punch. I can only add that some of Richard III’s correspondence survives (including a letter to his mother), and it indicates that he spoke/wrote what is now known as Middle English. IIRC, it was Edward III a century or so before who promulgated a statute that made English the court language; before that, it had been Norman French.
Pointless trivia question that I’ll tack on simply because I have it in mind at the moment: Richard I’s queen, Berengaria of Navarre, has a distinction shared by no other English consort. Anyone know what it is?
---
### Author:  [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/8 "2003-01-02T05:52:47Z")
Richard I most likely spoke a form of medieval French, being descended from the House of Anjou on his father’s side and the House of Poitou on his mother’s (Eleanor of Aquitaine). Most of the English nobility at that time, about 100 years after the Norman Conquest, spoke French in preference to English, the language of the common people.
I concur in the George I thing – he was Georg, Elector of Hannover, prior to inheriting the English throne as the closest Protestant heir to Queen Anne – who was his third cousin once removed, IIRC.
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/9 "2003-01-02T05:56:48Z")
[Another version, from a Knights Templar site:](http://www.templarhistory.com/richard.html)
> [@](#):
>
> During the siege Richard was riding close to the castle without the protection of full armor. He spotted an archer with bow in hand on the wall aiming a shot at him. It is said Richard paused to applaud the Bowman. He was struck in the shoulder with the arrow and refused treatment for his wound. Infection set in and Richard the Lionheart died on April the 6th 1199. He was buried in the Fontvraud Abbey in Anjou France.
I can’t find any mention of a “tin pot”, unless that was in reference to some kind of head protection worn by the archer/cross-bowman concerned. There are many legends around Richard I, some probably down to mis-translations, as you said in the OP, **Daoloth**.
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/10 "2003-01-02T05:58:01Z")
Oh, and Berengaria was the only known Queen of England who never set foot there.
---
### Author:  [@Nichol\_storm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nichol_storm)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/11 "2003-01-02T06:17:19Z")
Richard I the Lion-hearted spoke Old French and perhaps the Langue d’Oc of his mother’s family. I sincerely doubt he ever learned English. Most of the royalty and nobility of England at that time were Norman/Angevin imports, though Richard _did_ have some distant Anglo-Saxon ancestry through his great-great-grandmother, Queen (St.) Margaret of Scotland, who was one of the last members of the native Saxon royalty of England.
.:Nichol:.
---
### Author:  [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/12 "2003-01-02T06:41:53Z")
Richard I certainly did not speak English and he spent more of his life outside of England than he did in it.
---
### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/13 "2003-01-02T06:49:12Z")
I concur with **MC** , on the point that he spent very little time in England (being captured and all that, if I have my kings straight).
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/14 "2003-01-02T06:52:59Z")
Yes, folks, but the OP was asking about Richard III, regarding language, _not_ Richard I. **OttoDaFe** seems to have hit th’ target.
And yes, **Speaker** and **MC** – Richard I apparently spent only 6 months of his 10 year reign in England.
---
### Author:  [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/15 "2003-01-02T07:10:18Z")
Isn’t Richard I buried in France also?
---
### Author:  [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/16 "2003-01-02T07:13:45Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Speaker for the Dead \*
> \*\*I concur with **MC** , on the point that he spent very little time in England (being captured and all that, if I have my kings straight). \*\*
Yeah, Richard I spent only 6 months of his 10 year reign in England itself. However, as I (errantly attributed) noted in the OP, he was born and raised in Oxford. However, as others have noted, he probably spoke some other tongue.
Bah, British history is just so confusing.
---
### Author:  [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/17 "2003-01-02T07:16:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> _Orig, by Daoloth_
> Bah, British history is just so confusing.
Sorry to say this, **Daoloth** , but so was th’ OP.
---
### Author:  [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/18 "2003-01-02T07:19:36Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ice Wolf \*
> \*\*Sorry to say this, **Daoloth** , but so was th’ OP. \*\*
Heh, well, I’m just a Yankee. 😉
---
### Author:  [@Major\_Feelgud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Major_Feelgud)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/19 "2003-01-02T07:22:21Z")
There was only 1 Lion Heart and that was Richard I. He had a lot of holdings in France and spent most of his time there, much of it plotting against his father. The Anglo/Norman/French nobles of the time did not speak the language of the common Anglo-Saxon citizenry.
Richard I was killed by an archer, most likely wearing a “tin pot” or metal helmet. The poor guy was executed by his own people for killing Richard I.
---
### Author:  [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)
#### Post date: [January 2, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159/20 "2003-01-02T15:23:03Z")
Yes, **eenerms** , he is. Richard I, buried in France, that is. I’ve seen him (or rather, I’ve seen his tomb and effigy) and even took a picture of it. Sadly, I don’t remember where it was I saw him. Rheims? Bayeau? Rouen? I forget. Anyone?
Snicks
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-coeur-de-lion/146159.md?page=2)