# Richard III: Died for the want of a horse, found under a car park **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 4, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299 "2013-02-04T13:04:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/121 "2013-09-04T19:12:50Z")
Per the NIH, about one billion people worldwide are infected with them and there are usually [no symptoms](http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000628.htm), although there can also be some seriously gross ones. (Don’t click on the link if you don’t want to know!) ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/122 "2014-09-17T01:33:08Z")
Further, detailed autopsy results are in: “The deathblows likely came from a sword or a bill or halberd, which were bladed weapons on poles often used on the battlefield. At the base of Richard III’s skull, researchers found two wounds, one 2.4 by 2.2 inches (60 by 55 mm) and one 1.21 by 0.67 inches (32 by 17 mm). This wound was in line with another, about 4 inches (105 mm) away on the internal wall of the skull, as well as in line with damage to the top vertebrae. In other words, it appears that the blade entered the head, sliced through the brain and hit the opposite side of the skull.” > **[King Richard III's Final Moments Were Quick & Brutal](https://www.livescience.com/47869-richard-iii-final-moments-postmortem.html)** > > King Richard III, the last English king to die in battle, was likely kneeling or prone on the battlefield when the fatal blow came. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/123 "2014-09-17T01:48:00Z")
The man should have been on a horse. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/124 "2014-09-17T01:53:51Z")
I wonder what he would’ve offered for a horse, right about then…? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/125 "2014-09-17T02:05:35Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I wonder what he would’ve offered for a horse, right about then…? 🙂 That is probably like the John Paul Jones quote, “I have not begun to fight!” Supposedly, he truly said, “Now I’ve got the son of a bitch!” I don’t know how the English cursed in the the fifteenth century, but I imagine that “Mother fucker!” was spoken. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/126 "2014-09-17T04:40:30Z")
Another update from last spring: the High court has refused to set aside the burial permit issued authorizing re-burial in Leicester, so it looks like Richard’s remains are going to stay on Leicester, not be moved to York. > **[King Richard III's family loses battle over remains found in parking lot |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/king-richard-iii-gets-burial-near-parking-lot-where-his-skeleton-was-found-1.2651974)** > > In the battle royal over 15th-century bones, Britain's High Court gives the victory to Leicester, the city in central England where his skeleton was found under a parking lot in 2012. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/127 "2014-09-17T15:45:52Z")
Have a look in the Richard III Ward: [Monty Python - Hospital For Over Acting - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbS2WJdav6c) ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/128 "2014-09-17T20:21:36Z")
PBS’ _Secrets of the Dead_ has a new program on Richard, called “Resurrecting Richard III.” Watch for it coming soon, and [see a preview now online](http://video.pbs.org/video/2365310309/). ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/129 "2014-09-18T02:45:57Z")
Slight hijack: In high school, I remember reading a fictional book about a bedridden detective who got into the Richard III story and started trying to solve the mystery of his villainy. Anyone have any idea what it might have been called? Had an itch for it recently. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/130 "2014-09-18T04:48:56Z")
Josephine Tey, _The Daughter of Time_. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/131 "2014-09-18T05:42:01Z")
> [@Ellen\_Cherry](#): > > PBS’ _Secrets of the Dead_ has a new program on Richard, called “Resurrecting Richard III.” Watch for it coming soon, and [see a preview now online](http://video.pbs.org/video/2365310309/). Another preview is linked there, interesting to see how someone with scoliosis could still do all the things that many reported that Richard III could do. [http://video.pbs.org/video/2365321013/](http://video.pbs.org/video/2365321013/) > [@](#): > > Richard’s Body Double > > 26-year-old Dominic Smee has the exact kind of scoliosis to the same degree as Richard III. The team studying Richard III will train and test Dominic to find out exactly what Richard was capable of. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/132 "2014-09-18T17:27:16Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Way I heard it, there was a three-stage process involved: (1) insert hollow tube; (2) insert red-hot pointy poker into tube; (3) ram pointy poker into guts. > > Not gonna experiment to see if it works, mind. 😃 > > But yeah, most actual contemporary accounts have the more boring CoD as “smothered”. A hollow toilet paper tube? I hear they can be used to prove or disprove almost any kind of violent assault. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/133 "2014-09-18T17:59:27Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > A hollow toilet paper tube? I hear they can be used to prove or disprove almost any kind of violent assault. Well, when dealing with red-hot pokers, I’d think you’d want to use something other than _toilet paper tubes_ … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/134 "2014-09-18T19:07:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Richard’s Body Double > > > > 26-year-old Dominic Smee has the exact kind of scoliosis to the same degree as Richard III. The team studying Richard III will train and test Dominic to find out exactly what Richard was capable of. Well, that’s an intuitive approach. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/135 "2014-09-18T20:34:28Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Slight hijack: In high school, I remember reading a fictional book about a bedridden detective who got into the Richard III story and started trying to solve the mystery of his villainy. Anyone have any idea what it might have been called? Had an itch for it recently. That’s _The Daughter of Time_ by Josephine Tey. Great book. ETA: Never mind, Northern Piper got there first - I got overexcited seeing a mention of one of my favourite mystery books… ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/136 "2014-09-18T20:39:41Z")
> [@eclectic\_wench](#): > > That’s _The Daughter of Time_ by Josephine Tey. Great book. > > ETA: Never mind, Northern Piper got there first - I got overexcited seeing a mention of one of my favourite mystery books… Well, thanks to both of you! Off to Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/137 "2014-09-20T14:30:18Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > “The deathblows likely came from a sword or a bill or halberd, which were bladed weapons on poles often used on the battlefield. At the base of Richard III’s skull, researchers found two wounds, one 2.4 by 2.2 inches (60 by 55 mm) and one 1.21 by 0.67 inches (32 by 17 mm). This wound was in line with another, about 4 inches (105 mm) away on the internal wall of the skull, as well as in line with damage to the top vertebrae. In other words, it appears that the blade entered the head, sliced through the brain and hit the opposite side of the skull.” 'Tis but a scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/138 "2014-09-20T18:37:00Z")
What’s the story of how he happened to be where he was found? Was that the site of the battlefield? Was there a church or a cemetery there in the past where he was formally buried? But if that was the case, why was the site lost to history? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/139 "2014-09-20T19:47:52Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What’s the story of how he happened to be where he was found? Was that the site of the battlefield? Was there a church or a cemetery there in the past where he was formally buried? But if that was the case, why was the site lost to history? Perhaps his guys buried him secretly rather than have the other side parade about with his head on a pike. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299/140 "2014-09-20T20:18:37Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > What’s the story of how he happened to be where he was found? Was that the site of the battlefield? Was there a church or a cemetery there in the past where he was formally buried? But if that was the case, why was the site lost to history? He was killed at [Bosworth Field](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bosworth_Field), which is about 20 km (13 miles) from the city of Leicester. Presumably his body was carried to Leicester after the battle. He was buried in the Church of the Grey Friars, which was just south of the present-day Leicester Cathedral, where [this memorial tablet](https://www.flickr.com/photos/75905404@N00/293450152) can be found. (Leicester Cathedral was just a parish church back in 1485, and was changed into a cathedral with the re-establishment of the Diocese of Leicester in 1926.) The buildings of the [Grey Friars](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyfriars,_Leicester) were demolished about 1538 when King Henry VIII was dissolving monasteries all over England. At that time New Street must have been built through the former monastery, which would account for its name – it would have been “new” in the mid-16th century – and the precise site of King Richard’s tomb would have become unknown, becoming part of a car park sometime early in the 20th century. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-died-for-the-want-of-a-horse-found-under-a-car-park/649299.md?page=8)