# Richard III is being reburied today
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [March 22, 2015, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680 "2015-03-22T13:24:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/21 "2015-03-26T03:05:08Z")
There’s ignominy, and there’s ceremony; there’s dishonor, and there’s honor. A King of England, for all his faults, should be properly buried.
The Queen won’t be there; the Countess of Wessex (Prince Edward’s wife) will represent her: [Richard III's reputation restored as Queen gives royal seal of approval](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/11488562/Richard-IIIIs-reputation-restored-as-Queen-gives-royal-seal-of-approval.html)
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2015, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/22 "2015-03-26T10:13:18Z")
Well, he had been properly buried, hadn’t he? He had been given a funeral mass, buried, then interred in a tomb his successor had built for him. It’s also maybe a little ironic that Richard, who had endowed multiple churches and abbeys, isn’t being given a Catholic funeral.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/23 "2015-03-26T11:24:49Z")
We sang a traditional Latin requiem mass for him this evening, complete with Sarum rite propers, similar to the rite he’d have known. So at least he got one Catholic mass.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/24 "2015-03-26T14:37:11Z")
The reinterment ceremony is now over. British actor Benedict Cumberpatch - recently determined to be related to the king - read a poem: [Richard III funeral - live updates | Richard III | The Guardian](http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2015/mar/26/richard-iii-funeral-live-updates)
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### Author:  [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)
#### Post date: [March 26, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/25 "2015-03-26T20:59:11Z")
My understanding is that he probably wasn’t nearly as nasty as the Bard makes him out, and there’s really little historical evidence to indicate whether he did or didn’t murder princes.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/26 "2015-03-27T01:28:15Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> Well, he had been properly buried, hadn’t he? He had been given a funeral mass, buried, then interred in a tomb his successor had built for him. It’s also maybe a little ironic that Richard, who had endowed multiple churches and abbeys, isn’t being given a Catholic funeral.
Cardinal Vincent Nichols, Archbishop of Westminster, officiated. Is there some deal that English Cardinals are selected by Parliament and are therefore not really Catholic that I haven’t heard about? I thought Rome operated as usual, even in that benighted land. 😕
> [@Cunctator](#):
>
> We sang a traditional Latin requiem mass for him this evening, complete with Sarum rite propers, similar to the rite he’d have known. So at least he got one Catholic mass.
Oh, THAT’S the problem. I know about you Latin Massers. If it’s any comfort, Richard would probably have difficulty understanding the liturgy in the current vernacular, too. 😉
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### Author:  [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Springtime_for_Spacers)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/27 "2015-03-27T02:00:15Z")
According to one of the sofa pundits speaking before yesterday’s ceremony Richard III established in law the principle of “innocent until proven guilty” so it seems only fair that in the matter of the princes we apply this same principle to him.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/28 "2015-03-27T02:02:53Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> Cardinal Vincent Nichols, Archbishop of Westminster, officiated.
From what I can see it was the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Bishop of Leicester who led the service, which wasn’t a requiem mass.
Cardinal Nichols offered a requiem mass for the repose of the soul of Richard III at Holy Cross Priory in Leicester on Monday.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/29 "2015-03-27T02:04:11Z")
Interesting article from an Anglican perspective; it also addresses the point, **Captain Amazing** , that his first burial was not ideal, to say the least: [http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2015/03/26/english-kings-remains-reburied-after-530-years/](http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2015/03/26/english-kings-remains-reburied-after-530-years/)
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/30 "2015-03-27T02:07:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> Cardinal Vincent Nichols, Archbishop of Westminster, officiated. Is there some deal that English Cardinals are selected by Parliament and are therefore not really Catholic that I haven’t heard about? I thought Rome operated as usual, even in that benighted land. 😕
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, presided over the service. Cardinal Nichols presided over an earlier service, when Richard’s coffin came to the cathedral.
So, to summarize, Richard was dug up and reinterred in a city that hated him when he was alive after a ceremony of a religion that was founded after he died by the son of the guy who killed him.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/31 "2015-03-27T02:59:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#):
>
> The Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, presided over the service.
Okay, that’s very different. And bad. Very, very bad. But very CoE, near as I can tell. Those Anglican bastards! They should be drawn and quartered, their parts sent to the far corners of the world, where they are drawn and quartered again, the brought together and reassembled to be drawn and quartered yet again, then burnt. I miss the burning part, which seems to have been completely dropped by the RCC.
(reminding myself that I split from Rome nearly as long ago as Henry VIII)
That was a nice thing your people did, **Cunctator**. I wish I could’ve seen it.
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### Author:  [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/32 "2015-03-27T04:19:23Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> (reminding myself that I split from Rome nearly as long ago as Henry VIII)
You’re older than I thought.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/33 "2015-03-27T12:53:39Z")
Couldn’t flying out of Fiumicino Airport be considered “splitting from Rome”?
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### Author:  [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/34 "2015-03-27T14:45:23Z")
> [@Springtime\_for\_Spacers](#):
>
> According to one of the sofa pundits speaking before yesterday’s ceremony Richard III established in law the principle of “innocent until proven guilty”…
Which only goes to show that you shouldn’t necessarily rely on what sofa pundits have to say. There is in fact some dispute among legal historians as to when the presumption of innocence was introduced into English law, with [some denying that it existed at all in this period](http://faculty.cua.edu/pennington/Law508/InnocentGuilty.htm), but [those who think that it did, don’t credit Richard III](http://works.bepress.com/francois_quintard_morenas/1/).
There has been a lot of nonsense talked over the past week about Richard’s legislative record. [Yesterday’s events prompted one historian of the Parliaments of the period to take a rather more sceptical view](https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2015/03/26/richard-iii-and-the-parliament-of-1484/).
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/35 "2015-03-27T15:08:52Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> Okay, that’s very different. And bad. Very, very bad. But very CoE, near as I can tell. Those Anglican bastards! They should be drawn and quartered, their parts sent to the far corners of the world, where they are drawn and quartered again, the brought together and reassembled to be drawn and quartered yet again, then burnt. I miss the burning part, which seems to have been completely dropped by the RCC.
>
> (reminding myself that I split from Rome nearly as long ago as Henry VIII)
>
> That was a nice thing your people did, **Cunctator**. I wish I could’ve seen it.
The Church leaves all the burning parts to Hell.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [March 27, 2015, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/36 "2015-03-27T22:55:31Z")
Well, NOW they do. :mad:
(looking at a certain Pit thread)
In case any literalist aspies think I am claiming I am 500 years old, I meant that the difference in time between Henry’s split and mine is short geologically. And not geographically; though I live in York Township, Illinois it is not particularly close to York, England. Except astronomically.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/37 "2015-03-28T00:30:06Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone]
That was a nice thing your people did, **Cunctator**. I wish I could’ve seen it.
[/QUOTE]
Stroll in any time. If there’s no special feast day and the choir’s singing we’ll often do a requiem. It’s just such a beautiful mass, both theologically and musically. And there’s always a recent death, or someone’s anniversary (parishioners, relatives etc) that we can commemorate. We’re doing another one this afternoon for those poor people on that crashed aeroplane.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/38 "2015-03-28T04:05:11Z")
Lemme see. 34°S 151°E minus 42°N 87.5°W? Kind of you to offer, but the shortest trip from here to there is via the Earth’s core!
As an altar boy I served at one, count 'em, ONE mass in Latin before the change to the vernacular and I had to learn it all over. Which would have been easier had I not been seething over all that time I wasted memorizing it in Latin.
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### Author:  [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2015, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/39 "2015-03-28T06:03:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> There’s ignominy, and there’s ceremony; there’s dishonor, and there’s honor. A King of England, for all his faults, should be properly buried.
>
> The Queen won’t be there; the Countess of Wessex (Prince Edward’s wife) will represent her: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/11488562/Richard-IIIIs-reputation-restored-as-Queen-gives-royal-seal-of-approval.html](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/archaeology/11488562/Richard-IIIIs-reputation-restored-as-Queen-gives-royal-seal-of-approval.html)
This is my take on it too. As former King he deserves some respect when being reintered. The reinterment was attended by suitably minor Royalty.
> [@Learjeff](#):
>
> My understanding is that he probably wasn’t nearly as nasty as the Bard makes him out, and there’s really little historical evidence to indicate whether he did or didn’t murder princes.
Your correct about there being little evidence. What evidence we do have though is pointed towards Richard. Some of the evidence importantly is pre-Tudor.
Also, even though not evidence: when _everything_ legally and illegaly falls your way once you become “Protector” then the chances are its not coincidence but a real power grab.
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### Author:  [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-iii-is-being-reburied-today/715680/40 "2015-03-28T23:37:50Z")
> [@dropzone](#):
>
> As an altar boy I served at one, count 'em, ONE mass in Latin before the change to the vernacular and I had to learn it all over. Which would have been easier had I not been seething over all that time I wasted memorizing it in Latin.
I bet it would come back pretty quickly if you served a few more.
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