# Richard Nixon's presidency **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 3, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188 "2009-05-03T16:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/81 "2009-05-05T02:13:31Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > He did start a War on Cancer. He also coined the phrase “War on Drugs”, and made a stoned, sequined cape-wearing Elvis Presley a DEA agent. I think Elvis’s job was to keep all those drugs off the street by taking them himself. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/82 "2009-05-05T02:47:16Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > And if Nixon is your idea of a “good man”, I’d hate to see the type you consider a “bad man.” So far as I know Nixon didn’t deal with “bimbo eruptions” by trashing honest, sexually put-upon women; he didn’t cheat on his wife in the Oval Office by using impressionable young interns as dick-suckers adn humidors; he wasn’t the subject of one investigation after another into his and his wife’s financial shenanigans; and he didn’t engage in an orgy of pardons-for-sale-or-political-payback his last night in office. Now I’m sure that to you all this is just peachy, because he’s a lib/Dem. But I think Bill Clinton is a far more reprehensible person in terms of personal morality than Richard Nixon ever was, and I’d wager that his funeral won’t bring nearly the praise and admiration and tears from respected long-time politicos that Nixon’s did. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/83 "2009-05-05T02:51:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So far as I know Nixon didn’t deal with “bimbo eruptions” by trashing honest, sexually put-upon women; he didn’t cheat on his wife in the Oval Office by using impressionable young interns as dick-suckers adn humidors; he wasn’t the subject of one investigation after another into his and his wife’s financial shenanigans; and he didn’t engage in an orgy of pardons-for-sale-or-political-payback his last night in office. > > Now I’m sure that to you all this is just peachy, because he’s a lib/Dem. But I think Bill Clinton is a far more reprehensible person in terms of personal morality than Richard Nixon ever was, and I’d wager that his funeral won’t bring nearly the praise and admiration and tears from respected long-time politicos that Nixon’s did. Is there an equivalent of Godwin’s Law for any time a conservative brings up Bill Clinton’s blowjob to handwave away someone else’s moral failings? Can we call it Monica’s Law or something? And it means you just lost the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/84 "2009-05-05T02:52:40Z")
And Nixon was hugged by Sammy Davis, Jr. Doesn’t that count for anything with you people??? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/85 "2009-05-05T03:03:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Wait a minute. Richard Nixon, Working Class Hero? No. For some strange reason your response automatically made me picture Tricky Dick croaking out a version of the [John Lennon song](http://www.elyrics.net/read/j/john-lennon-lyrics/working-class-hero-lyrics.html) (which is rather ironic given Lennon’s battle with Nixon Administration). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/86 "2009-05-05T03:05:54Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Is there an equivalent of Godwin’s Law for any time a conservative brings up Bill Clinton’s blowjob to handwave away someone else’s moral failings? Can we call it Monica’s Law or something? As usual, you focus upon [what you view as] the least damaging of criticisms you don’t like and try to make them the focus of the argument. What about his myriad other moral shortcomings and the lives he’s ruined and the crooks he’s let off the hook…hmm? > [@Rubystreak](#): > > And it means you just lost the debate. No, actually it’s a surefire winner, as there is no worthwhile defense. That piece of shit wagged his finger and lied to our face, then claimed that he didn’t have sex with her; she had sex with him, and then quibbled over what the meaning of “is” is. He’s a perjurer who was disbarred in Arkansas and disallowed from arguing before the Supreme Court. His financial dealings have been suspect since his governorship and he clearly sold pardons for money or policitical favors or both. He’s the most blatantly crooked and dishonest president of my lifetime. By transparently choosing not to talk about those aspects of his character, rather than the blowjob, it is you who loses the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/87 "2009-05-05T03:09:49Z")
So rigging an election isn’t as bad as getting a blow-job? Jesus! That’s SICK! A blow-job is worse than overthrowing a democratically elected government to install a murderous dictator? That’s just fucking EVIL. Good God! It has nothing to do with Clinton being a liberal, though. (I could turn it around on you and say it’s because Nixon’s a Republican and Clinton’s a liberal. Tit for tat and all that fun stuff) This makes me want to vomit. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/88 "2009-05-05T03:21:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As usual, you focus upon [what you view as] the least damaging of criticisms you don’t like and try to make them the focus of the argument. What about his myriad other moral shortcomings and the lives he’s ruined and the crooks he’s let off the hook…hmm? What am I focusing on? All I’ve done is point out that, rather than address Nixon’s character flaws, you bring up someone else’s. That’s called “changing the subject.” This thread is not about Bill Clinton. Clinton did what he did, and frankly, I don’t think this is the place where I should have to discuss it. His misadventures in no way mitigate or diminish what Nixon did decades before, for which he had to resign from office. Anytime anyone wants to criticize a conservative president, you trot out BlowjobGate and that’s supposed to end the conversation. It’s a ridiculous and transparent tactic. Please try to stay on topic. > [@](#): > > No, actually it’s a surefire winner, as there is no worthwhile defense. Sorry, but you’re wrong. It seems like you have to change the subject because you can’t defend Nixon on his own merits. > [@](#): > > He’s the most blatantly crooked and dishonest president of my lifetime. By transparently choosing not to talk about those aspects of his character, rather than the blowjob, it is you who loses the debate. Pardon me, but I thought we were TALKING ABOUT NIXON. Why should I or anyone else have to talk about any aspects of Clinton’s character in a thread about Nixon? Want to argue about Bill Clinton? Start another thread. This one’s about Nixon. Got it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/89 "2009-05-05T03:29:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So rigging an election isn’t as bad as getting a blow-job? Jesus! That’s SICK! Never said that, **Rubyst** …uh, **Guin**. Prove that Nixon rigged the election please. (Given that he won by a 60% margin, that must have been one hell of a rigging.) > [@Guinastasia](#): > > A blow-job is worse than overthrowing a democratically elected government to install a murderous dictator? That’s just fucking EVIL. What the hell are you talking about? > [@Guinastasia](#): > > This makes me want to vomit. Oh, get over yourself. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/90 "2009-05-05T03:35:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > What am I focusing on? All I’ve done is point out that, rather than address Nixon’s character flaws, you bring up someone else’s. That’s called “changing the subject.” This thread is not about Bill Clinton. Clinton did what he did, and frankly, I don’t think this is the place where I should have to discuss it. His misadventures in no way mitigate or diminish what Nixon did decades before, for which he had to resign from office. Anytime anyone wants to criticize a conservative president, you trot out BlowjobGate and that’s supposed to end the conversation. It’s a ridiculous and transparent tactic. Please try to stay on topic. Uh, **Guinastasia** , your comrade-at-arms in false attribution, _asked_ who, as opposed to Nixon, would I consider to be a bad man. I merely answered. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Sorry, but you’re wrong. It seems like you have to change the subject because you can’t defend Nixon on his own merits. See above. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Pardon me, but I thought we were TALKING ABOUT NIXON. Why should I or anyone else have to talk about any aspects of Clinton’s character in a thread about Nixon? Want to argue about Bill Clinton? Start another thread. This one’s about Nixon. See above. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > Got it? Yeah, but you can’t have it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/91 "2009-05-05T03:38:33Z")
That was my fault, **Ruby** , I made a throw-away comment. Let’s just drop the Clinton shit, **Starving Artist** , and concentrate on Nixon, mmkay? This isn’t about Clinton (or Reagan, or Ford, or Kennedy, or whoever). It was a metaphor. I know how you feel about Clinton already. Okay? And I’m “talking the hell about” the overthrow of the Allende government in favor of a military dictatorship under General Pinochet in Chile. Backed and supported by the U.S. (And it had Kissenger’s clawprints all over it) ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/92 "2009-05-05T03:46:04Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Uh, **Guinastasia** , your comrade-at-arms in false attribution, _asked_ who, as opposed to Nixon, would I consider to be a bad man. I merely answered. Well, OK then. Perhaps I should have just pointed and laughed instead. 😉 Is it possible to be objective, ever? I have a strong feeling that if Bill Clinton had been a conservative and a man whose politics you admired, you’d find a way to excuse his failings are you are Nixon’s. Nixon committed crimes that caused him to resign from office. He brought as much disgrace onto the office of the president as any president ever has. It seems like you admire his politics but not his character. The same could be said by many of Clinton. Ironically, this: > [@SA](#): > > But in spite of that I still think he was a good president and essentially a good man. In short, I think he was a far cry from evil and is only perceived that way because of portrayals by a news media that had been out to get him for decades. Could also very easily be said of Clinton. If one were to be objective, of course, not viewing things through a distorted partisan lens. > [@](#): > > Yeah, but you can’t have it. 🙂 No, no, I want YOU to have it. ETA: I wish I hadn’t posted this. I really don’t want to talk about Bill Clinton. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/93 "2009-05-05T04:02:17Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The supposed great achievement of Nixon opening a dialogue with China, worthy of this compromise, was to create a split between the two largest Communist powers. Unbeknownst (or at least, poorly understood) by Western intelligence was that the Sino-Soviet conflicts had been ongoing for well over a decade and despite a supposed shared ideology both the cultures and leadership personalities of the two powers were always at odds with one another. Nixon might like to have claimed to drive a wedge between China and the Soviet Union, but this had long existed before Nixon was ever on stage. > > Stranger Poorly understood? I understood the split at the time from reading the New York Times. The [Chinese- Soviet border clashes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict) were well known. There was indeed a crack before Nixon - he increased the split. As for the evil of the PRC, do you think the world would be safer and the people of the PRC any freer if we continued to isolate them? They had been in power for well over 20 years, and weren’t going anywhere. It was a brilliant piece of strategy, and one that no Democrat could have gotten away with. I doubt any Republican without Nixon’s pure anti-Communist credentials could have either. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/94 "2009-05-05T04:05:20Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > He didn’t? Because my dad’s always going on about how Nixon ended the war just before he (my dad) was due to be drafted. Your father’s memory is more than slightly deficient. I had a draft lottery number of 11, so the draft was rather important to me. The draft ended in 1973, just before I graduated from college and my 2S status - the War of course didn’t end until after Nixon was out of office. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/95 "2009-05-05T04:12:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So rigging an election isn’t as bad as getting a blow-job? Jesus! That’s SICK! Nixon didn’t rig the election. Watergate came from the paranoia of Nixon and his people that the Dems had some dirt on him. What makes Nixon a tragic figure worthy of Shakespeare is that McGovern had no chance, and that Nixon would have won in a landslide without doing anything. A lot of Nixon’s policies would be considered liberal today. You also have to respect someone who recovered from the depths of loss in 1962 to get the nomination in 1968. He was very smart, but his moral failings doomed him. He’s so interesting because he was such a mix of good and evil. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/96 "2009-05-05T04:16:17Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What the hell are you talking about? Chile. Did you miss **BrainGlutton** ’s link? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/97 "2009-05-05T04:35:54Z")
Yes, I did. But I have to go for now. Perhaps more later. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/98 "2009-05-05T05:53:48Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Chile. Did you miss **BrainGlutton** ’s link? Interfering in Western Hemisphere politics to remove anti-US leaders and support pro-US leaders, either by military action or training, was pretty much standard operating procedure in American foreign policy in the 20th century. So Nixon’s in good company there. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/99 "2009-05-05T06:00:03Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Nixon didn’t rig the election. Watergate came from the paranoia of Nixon and his people that the Dems had some dirt on him. > > What makes Nixon a tragic figure worthy of Shakespeare is that McGovern had no chance, and that Nixon would have won in a landslide without doing anything. > A lot of Nixon’s policies would be considered liberal today. You also have to respect someone who recovered from the depths of loss in 1962 to get the nomination in 1968. He was very smart, but his moral failings doomed him. He’s so interesting because he was such a mix of good and evil. Of course. But his attempts to do so don’t absolve him, even though they failed, and weren’t needed. **Captain Amazing** , no one is excusing the actions of other presidents – LBJ, JFK, Ike, FDR, the whole alphabet soup of them. Latin America has been screwed over by the US for god knows how long. But that’s another thread. This is about Nixon, and HIS actions. Dammit! (Insert “If a Democrat/Republican jumped off of a bridge, would that make it okay for the Republican/Democrat to do it too?”) ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2009, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188/100 "2009-05-05T06:15:50Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I also heard recently that Nixon’s much ballyhooed opening of China actually didn’t amount to much. Not sure what’s the truth on that. Not sure how, but my father scored front row seats at Madison Square Garden when the first Chinese sports team arrived - it was a gymnastics exhibition. If you ever find video of it, I am sure you will see Dad, me, and younger sis. It was on Wide World of Sports at the time, and I am sure it was national and probably international news. So it amounted to that at least 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-nixons-presidency/495188.md?page=6)