# Richard Stallman resigns from MIT/FSF after comments on Epstein **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392 "2019-09-17T17:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/1 "2019-09-17T17:49:26Z")
> **[Richard Stallman leaves MIT after controversial remarks on rape](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/09/richard-stallman-leaves-mit-after-controversial-remarks-on-rape/)** > > Free software pioneer has history of controversial comments about underage sex. > **[Famed Computer Scientist Richard Stallman Described Epstein Victims As...](https://www.vice.com/en/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-scientist-richard-stallman-described-epstein-victims-as-entirely-willing)** > > Stallman, a pioneer of the free software movement, argued about the definition of "sexual assault" on an MIT email listserv about the university's connections to Jeffrey Epstein. > [@](#): > > Early in the thread, Stallman insists that the “most plausible scenario” is that Epstein’s underage victims were “entirely willing” while being trafficked. Stallman goes on to argue about the definition of “sexual assault,” “rape,” and whether they apply to Minsky and Giuffre’s deposition statement that she was forced to have sex with him. Frankly, he’s always been an ass, but here he sounds like a Neanderthal. He’s done some great work, but I’m happy to see him go. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/2 "2019-09-17T19:09:27Z")
Is it really that hard to think and say “I believe that everyone should follow the age of consent laws”? ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/3 "2019-09-17T19:24:17Z")
My reading of it is that RMS is not defending Epstein, but defending Minsky. RMS’ supposition is not that the victims were willing, but that they presented (aka faked) being willing to Minsky, following the coercive orders of Epstein. Perhaps I’m giving RMS too much benefit of the doubt, but my paraphrasing of what he says is, “I can’t imagine Minsky doing something so horrible, he must have thought the victim was willing.” In that sense, some of the articles are misscharacterizing what RMS said. Of course, RMS then goes on to say that statutory rape at age 17 in the Virgin Islands is arbitrary, so he doesn’t accept that as a good definition of rape. He’s right in that in different jurisdictions the age of consent can be 16, 17, 18, or whatever. But he’s wrong in that at that place and at that time they had decided it was 18, so having sex with a 17 year old was rape. For somebody who thought so much about the technical aspects of software licensing, I’m amazed he has so much trouble with something like this. I mean, “you must provide the source code when distributing the software” versus “you can provide a link to the source code when distributing the software” are important distinctions to RMS. Yeah, he’s always been an ass, which is probably a big part of why we have free software. Having said all that, I’m not trying to defend RMS here. Just saying be angry at him for the bad things he actually said, not the other bad things he’s being reported to have said. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/4 "2019-09-17T19:24:58Z")
Jumping Jehosaphat, that Ars Technica article has some doozies. Stallman seems like someone I would not want to have to deal with. It’s a travesty anyone has had to put up with his nonsense, even outside his evolving commentary on age of consent. And then there’s this comment. > [@](#): > > He has a phobia of plants so women at MIT have been using _plants_ defensively: decorating their offices with lots of foliage, wearing plants etc, to avoid getting propositioned or groped by him. Seriously, defensive plants, it’s that ridiculous. > > After people told him that flat-out propositioning every women within earshot is not acceptable, he started handing out “pleasure cards” ([https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEWlJXRWsAA](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EEWlJXRWsAA) … name=small). Ewww. I clicked on the “pleasure card” link. It’s a business card with his name and contact information under the heading “sharing good books, good food and exotic music and dance _tender embraces_ [emphasis in original] unusual sense of humor.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/5 "2019-09-17T20:01:18Z")
I suppose he doesn’t need the jobs, what with his fat software royalties. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/6 "2019-09-17T20:17:48Z")
Richard is 66, so he can get Social Security and pensions. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/7 "2019-09-17T20:54:38Z")
I’ve been following the tales about the whole mess at MIT. When I saw the first thing by RMS it was :eek:. He then “clarified” by basically repeating it. :eek: He’s always been an insufferable jerk. Completely uncaring about others viewpoints. I’m surprised he lasted this long. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/8 "2019-09-17T22:02:35Z")
RMS has been a fucking creep for decades. It’s unfortunate that it took this long for something to happen. MIT and the FSF happily shrugged their collective shoulders for years as Stallman went on bizarre rants defending necrophilia, child pornography and sex with minors. That’s just the beginning, of course. You want to be really creeped out, see if you can dig up his old conference riders wherein he lists his requirements for accommodations. (No, he doesn’t want you to pay for a hotel. He wants to stay in your house. Then it gets worse.) Edit: maybe he’ll have more time now to work on HURD. lolz ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/9 "2019-09-17T22:30:15Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You want to be really creeped out, see if you can dig up his old conference riders wherein he lists his requirements for accommodations. (No, he doesn’t want you to pay for a hotel. He wants to stay in your house. Then it gets worse.) The first article linked by the OP has a link to one of those e-mail messages: [rre-rms/rider.txt at master · ddol/rre-rms · GitHub](https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/master/rider.txt) The article itself notes: > [@](#): > > “If you can find a host for me that has a friendly parrot, I will be very very glad,” Stallman wrote in a 2012 edition of the email. However, he asked hosts not to purchase a parrot for his benefit. Some things I noticed (it’s really long): > [@Stallman's requirements](#): > > Breaks: > > I absolutely refuse to have a break in the middle of my speech. > Once I start, I will go straight through. > > … > > A supply of tea with milk and sugar would be nice. If it is tea I > really like, I like it without milk and sugar. With milk and sugar, > any kind of tea is fine. I always bring tea bags with me, so if we > use my tea bags, I will certainly like that tea without milk or sugar. > > If I am quite sleepy, I would like two cans or small bottles of > non-diet Pepsi. (I dislike the taste of coke, and of all diet soda; > also, there is an international boycott of the Coca Cola company for > killing union organizers in Colombia and Guatemala; see > [killercoke.org](http://killercoke.org).) However, if I am not very sleepy, I won’t want > Pepsi, because it is better if I don’t drink so much sugar. > > … > > Bus and train tickets: > > If you buy bus or train tickets for me, do not give my name! Big > Brother has no right to know where I travel, or where you travel, or > where anyone travels. If they arbitrarily demand a name, give a name > that does not belong to any person you know of. If they will check my > ID before I board the bus or train, then let’s look for another way > for me to travel. (In the US I never use long-distance trains because > of their ID policy.) > > Don’t give them your name either: please pay for the ticket in cash. > > … > > Accommodations: > > I am willing to stay in a hotel if there is no other way. > Please book the hotel for me and arrange to pay the hotel directly. > > But please DON’T make a hotel reservation until we have fully explored > other options. If there is anyone who wants to offer a spare couch, I > would much rather stay there than in a hotel (provided I have a door I > can close, in order to have some privacy). Staying with someone is > more fun for me than a hotel, and it would also save you money. > > My distaste for a hotel is less if it does not know my name, but > staying in a house with people is normally more enjoyable than staying > alone. > > … > > Temperature: > > Above 72 fahrenheit (22 centigrade) I find sleeping quite difficult. > (If the air is dry, I can stand 23 degrees.) A little above that > temperature, a strong electric fan blowing on me enables me to sleep. > More than 3 degrees above that temperature, I need air conditioning to > sleep. > > If there is a substantial chance of indoor temperatures too hot for > me, please arrange _in advance_ for me to have what I need. > > If you are planning for me to stay in a hotel, DO NOT take for granted > that the hotel has air conditioning–or that it will be working when I > arrive. Some hotels shut off their air conditioning systems for part > of the year. They often think it is unnecessary in seasons when the > temperature is usually in the mid 20s–and they follow their schedule > like stupid robots even if there is a heat wave. > > So you must explicitly ask them: “Do you have air conditioning? Will > it be functioning for the dates XXX-YYY?” > > In some hotels with central air conditioning, it simply does not work > very well: it can make a room less hot, but can’t make it cool. > Before using a hotel that has central air conditioning, find out what > temperature it can actually lower a room to, during the relevant > dates. > > Or look for a hotel that has a real cooling unit in the room, not a > central system. Those tend to work well enough, if they are not > broken. > > … > Hospitality: > > Please pass this section to everyone who will be helping me directly > in any fashion during the visit. > > It is nice of you to want to be kind to me, but please don’t offer > help all the time. In general I am used to managing life on my own; > when I need help, I am not shy about asking. So there is no need to > offer to help me. Moreover, being constantly offered help is actually > quite distracting and tiresome. > > So please, unless I am in grave immediate danger, please don’t offer > help. The nicest thing you can do is help when I ask, and otherwise > not worry about how I am doing. Meanwhile, you can also ask me for > help when you need it. > > One situation where I do not need help, let alone supervision, is in > crossing streets. I grew up in the middle of the world’s biggest > city, full of cars, and I have crossed streets without assistance even > in the chaotic traffic of Bangalore and Delhi. Please just leave me > alone when I cross streets. > > … > > When you need to tell me about a problem in a plan, please do not > start with a long apology. That is unbearably boring, and unnecessary > – conveying useful information is helpful and good, and why apologize > for that? So please be practical and go straight to the point. > > … > > Food: > > I do not eat breakfast. Please do not ask me any questions about > what I will do breakfast. Please just do not bring it up. > > … ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/10 "2019-09-18T00:06:43Z")
Pardon me ifI need help following this thread, but who is Richard Stallman and why should I care about him? Seems like everyone else knows so don’t give the backstory? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/11 "2019-09-18T00:46:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Pardon me ifI need help following this thread, but who is Richard Stallman and why should I care about him? Seems like everyone else knows so don’t give the backstory? > > 😕 From the first link: > [@](#): > > Stallman has long been famous for his extreme devotion to the cause of free software. He spearheaded the GNU project to produce a Unix-like operating system that would be free for anyone to use and modify. GNU software became a key part of the operating system most people today call Linux—to the immense irritation of Stallman, who believes the GNU components are significant enough that the package should be called GNU/Linux. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/12 "2019-09-18T01:01:50Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Pardon me ifI need help following this thread, but who is Richard Stallman and why should I care about him? Seems like everyone else knows so don’t give the backstory? > > 😕 An extremely influential programmer who started the Free Software movement, which advocates for software code to be freely available to users and for users to have the right to redistribute software, potentially with their own modifications/improvements. His GNU Compiler Collection in particular was an absolutely critical piece of software in that allowed the development of an untold number of free and open-source software projects. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen in this thread, he’s also a raging asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/13 "2019-09-18T01:46:17Z")
He is also an extremist who refuses to use any kind of proprietary software. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/14 "2019-09-18T03:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > Stallman has long been famous for his extreme devotion to the cause of free software. He spearheaded the GNU project to produce a Unix-like operating system that would be free for anyone to use and modify. GNU software became a key part of the operating system most people today call Linux—to the immense irritation of Stallman, who believes the GNU components are significant enough that the package should be called GNU/Linux. It occurred to me a while ago that this rather undercuts Stallman’s evangelism for “free” software. He does want something in return for his software, but it’s not money, it’s recognition. ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/15 "2019-09-18T05:00:18Z")
I am part of a listserv that Richard participates in. He’s quite regularly an ass there, so this is not at all surprising. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/16 "2019-09-18T10:10:32Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > RMS has been a fucking creep for decades. It’s unfortunate that it took this long for something to happen. MIT and the FSF happily shrugged their collective shoulders for years as Stallman went on bizarre rants defending necrophilia, child pornography and sex with minors. Yep. See his posts (my emphases, archived by himself!) [here](https://stallman.org/archives/2003-may-aug.html)on 28 June 2003: The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, “prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia” also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally–but that is unfortunate.\*\* All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness.\*\* and [here in 2006](https://stallman.org/archives/2006-mar-jun.html#05%20June%202006%20%28Dutch%20paedophiles%20form%20political%20party%29): **I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children**. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren’t voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. “voluntary pedophilia”:mad: He has since [walked that stance back](https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September_2019_(Sex_between_an_adult_and_a_child_is_wrong)). I am “skeptical of his claim” to newfound empathy for abused kids, given the timing. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/17 "2019-09-18T12:14:59Z")
Note that a lot of GNU software has been developed in spite of RMS rather than due to his help. Take the GNU OS [microkernel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd), his pet project. Work started on it in 1990. In 2016 it reached version 0.9 (so not a full version). No major updates since. There’s a GNU-Hurd-Debian thing now but it’s one of those “Why bother?” things. You’re not going to convince people to use “Free” OS software if after almost 20 years you haven’t produced version 1.0. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/18 "2019-09-18T15:59:05Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It occurred to me a while ago that this rather undercuts Stallman’s evangelism for “free” software. He does want something in return for his software, but it’s not money, it’s recognition. Free as in freedom, not free as in no-cost. You can charge for free software, but you can’t limit what the purchasers do with the software once they have it. They can turn around and give it away. The two big contributions by RMS are the idea of Free Software in the firstplace, and the Gnu Public License. All software started as Free. People wrote it and passed it around. Not trying to paint them as evil, but then companies got into it and started the idea of software licenses, limits on what you can do with the software you have, and not releasing the source code for the software. RMS came along and said, “hey, things were much better when everything was free, we should do that again.” To insure that software stayed Free, RMS (along with others) came up with the GPL, which subverted copyright to make sure that software released under the GPL stayed Free—copyleft. The GPL basically says, you can do whatever you want with this software, but if you distribute it then you must provide your source code, and allow other people to also do whatever they want with the software, and attach this license. The GNU project that RMS started provided the tools and ground work for the Free and Open Source software explosion that started in the 80s, and has been growing ever since. The GPL provided the license necessary to make sure the movement stayed Free and Open. In my opinion RMS is definitely on the short list of people who have made major contributions to the technical look of the world today. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs certainly had better publicists, but I don’t think that makes RMS any less important. Like other founding fathers, RMS can make incredibly important contributions to society, and still be a deeply flawed individual. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/19 "2019-09-18T16:21:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The first article linked by the OP has a link to one of those e-mail messages: [rre-rms/rider.txt at master · ddol/rre-rms · GitHub](https://github.com/ddol/rre-rms/blob/master/rider.txt) I read through that rider. It’s really long and detailed and honestly he comes off as someone who is full of himself. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/20 "2019-09-18T16:29:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > It’s really long and detailed and honestly he comes off as someone who is full of himself. I’m sure RMS would agree. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392.md?page=2)