# Richard Stallman resigns from MIT/FSF after comments on Epstein **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 17, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392 "2019-09-17T17:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/41 "2019-09-19T17:31:39Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And you are conflating Marxism with Communism. I said that Marx supported murder and free shit. I didn’t say anything one way or the other about Communism. “there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror.” ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/42 "2019-09-19T19:33:15Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > Because Stallman doesn’t want you to be able to do whatever _you_ want with the software, he wants you to be able to do whatever _he_ wants. The GPL v2 is quite restrictive in many ways and v3 even more so. > > I once was publishing a piece of open source software under the BSD license. I got a few messages from FSF people suggesting that I change to GPL. I naively did so, then got a bunch of complaints from users who now couldn’t use my software as they had previously, due to the terms of the “GNU Public Virus” as one complaintant referred to it, since including GPL software in your software “infects” it and changes what you can do with the rest of the software. I think that if it weren’t for Stallman’s intransigence, a more reasonable license could have been crafted which didn’t restrict the use of free software as much as GPL does. Stallman originally crafted the GPL after he was pissed off by an incident where he gave away, for free to some people who asked for it, some modified printer driver of his devising or Emacs macros or something of that nature. They were happy enough to grab it, but when he heard that they in turn added on some useful changes and asked for a copy, they gave him the cold shoulder. There was nothing he could do, so he came up with a “copyleft” license to specifically disallow that behaviour. In that sense, the GPL restricts “what you can do” with a piece of software. (The BSD licence has its own mandates.) If you don’t care, or need something different, there is nothing forcing you to license your software under those terms; I don’t see how that’s on the FSF. Nor should it retroactively affect (or infect) your customers who already have BSD-licensed software. Also, the FSF openly and explicitly states that the 3-clause BSD license is GPL compatible. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/43 "2019-09-19T19:46:07Z")
I realize this is in MPSIMS and threads can wander, but the GPL/copyleft discussion has nothing to do with the fact that RMS appears to be a loathsome individual in his personal life and it’s been ignored/handwaved by the computing world for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/44 "2019-09-19T20:05:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > RMS appears to be a loathsome individual in his personal life and it’s been ignored/handwaved by the computing world for decades. Well, I suppose one could say that to some extent the information technology world has a reputation consistent with that kind of thing? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/45 "2019-09-19T20:27:20Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I realize this is in MPSIMS and threads can wander, but the GPL/copyleft discussion has nothing to do with the fact that RMS appears to be a loathsome individual in his personal life and it’s been ignored/handwaved by the computing world for decades. Has he embraced any sort of explicitly anarchist stance where murder, rape, child abuse, etc., are bad not because the state says so, but because it’s morally wrong? I can see how he might start arguing (in bad taste) about statutory rape if he thought the idea of statutes, in general, was wrong. He’s always had his personal home page with all kinds of political stuff on there. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/46 "2019-09-19T21:34:35Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I realize this is in MPSIMS and threads can wander, but the GPL/copyleft discussion has nothing to do with the fact that RMS appears to be a loathsome individual in his personal life and it’s been ignored/handwaved by the computing world for decades. This is interesting. As a member of the computing world, am I responsible for Stallman’s behaviour? Should I reject ideas he’s had because of it? What else do I have to give up lest I be guilty of ignoring/handwaving his personal life? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/47 "2019-09-19T21:36:55Z")
I’m a member of the computing world too, and I have friends high up in the FSF and at MIT. I always knew he was an ass, but I guess I never knew the extent. And yes, to a degree, I think we’re all responsible for the culture we helped create. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/48 "2019-09-19T22:05:18Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > In that sense, the GPL restricts “what you can do” with a piece of software. (The BSD licence has its own mandates.) If you don’t care, or need something different, there is nothing forcing you to license your software under those terms; I don’t see how that’s on the FSF. I mostly agree, although as the largest and most visible repository of free software, I think it behooves them to use a license that encourages use of the software, based on the best understanding of the real world software environment, not based on an annoyance that one guy once experienced several decades ago. The current software definitely discourages use of free software in many environments. Maybe those are mostly the environments that Stallman wants to keep free software out of, but I don’t think GNU has benefited from this stance. > [@DPRK](#): > > Nor should it retroactively affect (or infect) your customers who already have BSD-licensed software. No, but it affects them when and if they wish to upgrade to the latest version of my software. In the end I released my software with two licenses, GPL and BSD-like, and the user can choose which one he wants to use. > [@DPRK](#): > > Also, the FSF openly and explicitly states that the 3-clause BSD license is GPL compatible. That must be new. Or new-ish. Or at least, it wasn’t that way 25 years or so ago when I last looked at it. Ah, I see, the 3-clause license didn’t even exist at that time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/49 "2019-09-20T00:08:42Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > I’m sure other people who frequently are invited (and paid) for speaking engagements have similar riders. Well, maybe not _similar_ but equivalent, in that they specify first or business class, and a certain quality of hotel room, and no green M&Ms, or whatever. I think complaining about the existence of a travel rider is short sighted, but making fun of the quirks and details of the rider is fair game. I’ve worked a hotel that occasionally had events with paid speakers. The organizers for those events would usually pass along (part) of the speaker’s rider. In my experience the only really odd thing about the accommodations section of his rider is preferring non-hotel rooms and writing it in the first person. Most riders I saw specified things like temperature, brand preferences, room types/amenities, and instructions for staff on how to communicate with the speaker (usually something along the lines of “run all issues/problems through their assistant, here’s the speaker’s preferred title, and no phone calls to the room”). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/50 "2019-09-20T00:38:12Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > This is interesting. As a member of the computing world, am I responsible for Stallman’s behaviour? Should I reject ideas he’s had because of it? What else do I have to give up lest I be guilty of ignoring/handwaving his personal life? Did you mean to quote a different post? Maybe one in a different thread? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/51 "2019-09-20T06:38:27Z")
It looks like a perfectly on-point response to the last part of what \*\*Telemark \*\*posted in the quote. What’s wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/52 "2019-09-20T10:29:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It looks like a perfectly on-point response to the last part of what \*\*Telemark \*\*posted in the quote. What’s wrong with it? I agree, I think it’s part of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/53 "2019-09-20T14:07:58Z")
Stallman sent this email to the GNU programmers’ mailing list last night, a copy of what he sent to the FSF board. > [@Richard Stallman](#): > > To the FSF board, > > I hereby resign as president of the Free Software Foundation and from > its board of directors. I am doing this due to pressure on the > Foundation and me over a series of misunderstandings and > mischaracterizations of what I have said. > > Richard Stallman > > I continue to be the Chief GNUisance. It seems to me that he is still not acknowledging that he’s done anything wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/54 "2019-09-20T14:12:27Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > It seems to me that he is still not acknowledging that he’s done anything wrong. That would be consistent with his past. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/55 "2019-09-20T16:36:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Did you mean to quote a different post? Maybe one in a different thread? Yes. Correct post. Correct thread. In hindsight, a kneejerk not-all-IT-professionals response sounds kinda lame. It’s still not clear to me what I did to create the horror that is Richard Stallman but if the point is, “don’t aid and abet your co-workers’ asshole-ishness” then I don’t have a real disagreement with Telemark. I was wrong in MPSIMS. Someone tell that guy in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2019, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/56 "2019-09-24T16:49:21Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > It’s still not clear to me what I did to create the horror that is Richard Stallman but if the point is, “don’t aid and abet your co-workers’ asshole-ishness” then I don’t have a real disagreement with Telemark. I’m sure we’re pretty much in agreement on most things related to this. It has been my experience over my 30+ years in the software business that most male engineers are content not rocking the boat and a few bad apples have contributed to an occasionally toxic environment. I’m just conscious of calling out colleagues when they do stuff that I would have previously let pass without comment. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/57 "2019-09-27T08:35:04Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > … Some things I noticed (it’s really long): I read your excerpts. As Stallman been diagnosed with some sort of autism? Or other clinical condition in the DSM? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/58 "2019-09-27T12:04:40Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > I’ve worked a hotel that occasionally had events with paid speakers. The organizers for those events would usually pass along (part) of the speaker’s rider. In my experience the only really odd thing about the accommodations section of his rider is preferring non-hotel rooms and writing it in the first person. > > Most riders I saw specified things like temperature, brand preferences, room types/amenities, and instructions for staff on how to communicate with the speaker (usually something along the lines of “run all issues/problems through their assistant, here’s the speaker’s preferred title, and no phone calls to the room”). And the weird parts of the rider seemed to be related to his preference for “couch-surfing” (as long as the couch is in a room with a door he can lock). Because then you have to get into things like don’t wake me for breakfast, don’t hover around me too much, if you cook for me these are the foods I hate, don’t invite a bunch of people over to meet me without asking me, I can cross the damn street without your help, thank you, etc etc. My take is that he doesn’t really like staying with real people. He has a fantasy about how great it would be to stay with mythical people that behave the way he would like them to at all times and never annoy him. And he’s never found that but he keeps trying. He should just stay at hotels instead of chasing that dragon. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/59 "2019-09-27T12:45:55Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > He should just stay at hotels instead of chasing that dragon. But then the government would have his name. It’s a Catch-22. I recently had an encounter with someone claiming to be an ex-security and intelligence agent of some kind. He offered much wisdom about how all the internet companies are turning over all your information to the government. I refrained from telling him that while all of that might be true there’s a point at which tHe conveniences you avoid to keep your one chapter of a fantasy fiction story out of the hands of the government has diminishing returns. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392/60 "2019-09-27T16:03:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I refrained from telling him that while all of that might be true there’s a point at which tHe conveniences you avoid to keep your one chapter of a fantasy fiction story out of the hands of the government has diminishing returns. I always shop at Target so they will think I like Target, in reality I’m just neutral about that company. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/richard-stallman-resigns-from-mit-fsf-after-comments-on-epstein/840392.md?page=4)