# Rick Perry to jump into the race? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 28, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589 "2011-05-28T19:57:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/121 "2011-07-07T07:10:09Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > [Innocent, but Executed | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html) > [DNA Tests Undermine Evidence in Texas Execution - The Texas Observer](http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/texas-observer-exclusive-dna-tests-undermine-evidence-in-texas-execution) > [10 Convicts Presumed Innocent After Execution - Listverse](http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/) This should cover it. If not, the most famous case of people almost being killed by a miscarriage of justice in Texas is [Randall Dale Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Dale_Adams). You might have heard of him, there’s an award winning film about it. He was completely innocent, as in he wasn’t even at the scene when it happened. He didn’t actually get electrocuted, but he got within 72 hours of it, which is close enough for me. If the Texas system had been able to run its course in isolation, he’d be dead, but Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. intervened. Even after Justice Powell’s intervention, he was still sentenced to life in prison (FUCK YOU, Bill Clements). He was recently able to die of old age, out of prison. This was partly due to the movie, and partly due to the actual killer finally admitting to the killing. After both of these events, he was finally granted a new trial, which the new prosecutor wisely decided not to prosecute. If after knowing his story you still have faith in Texas killing people as a punishment, you’re not worth arguing with on any subject. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/122 "2011-07-07T10:45:47Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > [Innocent, but Executed | HuffPost Latest News](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barry-scheck/innocent-but-executed_b_272327.html) > [DNA Tests Undermine Evidence in Texas Execution - The Texas Observer](http://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/texas-observer-exclusive-dna-tests-undermine-evidence-in-texas-execution) > [10 Convicts Presumed Innocent After Execution - Listverse](http://listverse.com/2010/01/12/10-convicts-presumed-innocent-after-execution/) As usuall, the typical Left wing “Well, I’ve got bunch of claims that were never brought out in trial.” Let’s take the case of Cameron Todd Willingham, since that seems to be a favorite.. [http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20101006-Ex-wife-says-Cameron-Todd-Willingham-6640.ece](http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20101006-Ex-wife-says-Cameron-Todd-Willingham-6640.ece) "AUSTIN, Texas - The ex-wife of the Texas man executed for setting fire to their home and killing their three daughters tearfully reiterated her contention Wednesday that he confessed his guilt to her. Stacy Kuykendall read a prepared statement to reporters outside the Travis County courthouse. She told reporters that Cameron Todd Willingham set the fire that killed the girls “and watched while their tiny bodies burned.” A hearing is scheduled for later Wednesday in which a judge has been asked to clear Willingham’s name based on allegedly faulty evidence of arson. “My ex-husband murdered my daughters, and just before he was executed, he told me he did it,” Kuykendall said. Kuykendall voice began quavering early in her statement, as she noted her oldest daughter would be 21 and her twins would be 19. “I think about my girls every day and I miss them,” she said." ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/123 "2011-07-07T10:51:17Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > This should cover it. If not, the most famous case of people almost being killed by a miscarriage of justice in Texas is [Randall Dale Adams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Dale_Adams). You might have heard of him, there’s an award winning film about it. He was completely innocent, as in he wasn’t even at the scene when it happened. He didn’t actually get electrocuted, but he got within 72 hours of it, which is close enough for me. If the Texas system had been able to run its course in isolation, he’d be dead, but Supreme Court Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. intervened. Even after Justice Powell’s intervention, he was still sentenced to life in prison (FUCK YOU, Bill Clements). He was recently able to die of old age, out of prison. This was partly due to the movie, and partly due to the actual killer finally admitting to the killing. After both of these events, he was finally granted a new trial, which the new prosecutor wisely decided not to prosecute. If after knowing his story you still have faith in Texas killing people as a punishment, you’re not worth arguing with on any subject. We are not talking about the “almosts”, we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana’s post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham. Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time. my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it’s become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the “well, he executed people” platform, I don’t think he’s going to make much traction on that. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/124 "2011-07-07T11:19:35Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > We are not talking about the “almosts”, we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana’s post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham. #2 [Recovering Republican, Please Step Into the Hallway for a Moment - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615311) > [@](#): > > Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time. #4 [Recovering Republican, Please Step Into the Hallway for a Moment - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615311) > [@](#): > > my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it’s become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the “well, he executed people” platform, I don’t think he’s going to make much traction on that. Obama isn’t “running against” Perry. He’s already president. Perry isn’t even running against Obama. Even if Perry does run, nobody except you has suggested that a willingness to violate international law in a zeal to execute Mexicans will charm the American public. Surely, hateful racists will love him for it, but hateful racists already vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/125 "2011-07-07T11:35:47Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Obama isn’t “running against” Perry. He’s already president. Perry isn’t even running against Obama. > > Even if Perry does run, nobody except you has suggested that a willingness to violate international law in a zeal to execute Mexicans will charm the American public. Surely, hateful racists will love him for it, but hateful racists already vote Republican. Guy, most Americans support capital punishment. Check in with Mike Dukakis on how well the ‘principled’ stance works out. We aren’t talking about executing a Mexican. We are talking about executing a rapist and murderer who confessed to what he did. He got a fair trial under our system and 12 Americans decided that he should pay the ulitmate penalty for his crime. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/126 "2011-07-07T11:48:35Z")
#5. You know the link by now. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/127 "2011-07-07T11:54:42Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > #5. You know the link by now. Yes, that you have nothing to add is duly noted.. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/128 "2011-07-07T12:02:07Z")
[![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Wc2o8ywKqos/hqdefault.jpg "Nathan Thurm 1984 - Martin Short - Saturday Night Live 15th Anniversary Special clip - 60 minutes") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc2o8ywKqos) ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/129 "2011-07-07T12:03:09Z")
Wow, guy, I’m really sorry I hurt your feelings. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/130 "2011-07-07T14:23:53Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > So are unions that insist on closing the plant instead of making concessions. Care to bring a cite for the most recent time that’s actually happened in the U.S.? A recent online acquaintance and co-blogger is a labor lawyer. His _life_ is all about concessions these days. In his day job, the issue under negotiation is never whether to make concessions or not; it’s how large or small the concessions should be. So please link to a recent instance of a labor union forcing a plant closure by their refusal to make any concessions. As Ross Perot used to say, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/131 "2011-07-07T15:58:45Z")
[Smoke and mirrors in the Texas budget process.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-care/texas-lawmakers-fail-to-solve-big-budget-problems-punt-tough-decisions-down-the-road/2011/06/24/AGbSTWjH_story_1.html) Perry is apparently screwing Texas big-time in his attempt to make himself look good for a potential Presidential run. Basically Texas is living the dream of balancing the budget solely through spending cuts (education, state agencies) and no tax increases. But much of it is (fully acknowledged) accounting tricks, for example, moving a 2 billion dollar payment back by one day in order to push it into the next fiscal year and ignoring Medicaid. So while Perry can claim to have left the state’s Rainy Day fund untouched, in reality it’s going to be fully committed for obligations pushed into the 2013 budget year. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/132 "2011-07-07T17:22:39Z")
> [@](#): > > As usuall, the typical Left wing “Well, I’ve got bunch of claims that were never brought out in trial.” In other words, what you’re looking for is people who were found guilty in court and were executed, but who were found not guilty in court. Is that right? Of _course_ we’re using things that were never found in the trials. That’s exactly what the problem is-- They should have been, but weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/133 "2011-07-07T17:50:31Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > We are not talking about the “almosts”, we are talking about guys actually executed here. I could drill down into Treberana’s post and find his other claims as dubious as Willingham. > > Of course, if people are being sent to death row and then being released due to very thorough reviews, then by contrast, you would have to assume people who get life sentences are also being convicted on dubious evidence and no one ever looks at their cases a second time. > > my own thought is we should get rid of the DP because it’s become ridiculously expensive to extinguish a dirtbag. But if Obama wants to run against Perry on the “well, he executed people” platform, I don’t think he’s going to make much traction on that. Yeah, you’re worthless to debate against. If your retort is “well, the folks who have life in prison might be innocent, too”, there’s just no point. Getting his sentence commuted to life in prison is what allowed Adams’ life to be saved (as in not wasting away in jail for a crime he had nothing to do with), and that didn’t happen due to the Texas justice system. He came close enough to dying for me. As far as Willingham’s wife’s statement goes, hearsay isn’t allowed in court for very good reasons. His wife has lots of emotional reasons to lie. If you reply, it’ll be for the benefit of your fingers. I won’t be reading it. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/134 "2011-07-07T23:08:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In other words, what you’re looking for is people who were found guilty in court and were executed, but who were found not guilty in court. Is that right? > > Of _course_ we’re using things that were never found in the trials. That’s exactly what the problem is-- They should have been, but weren’t. Or they weren’t actually there… > [@](#): > > As far as Willingham’s wife’s statement goes, hearsay isn’t allowed in court for very good reasons. His wife has lots of emotional reasons to lie. Like what? Seriously, what emotional reason would she have to lie about it? on the other hand, Willingham didn’t present arson evidence at his trial because the expert he hired had come to the same conclusion the state’s did- it was arson. It was only these guys who came in after the fact, who probably never saw the original site, who said, “Hey, maybe it wasn’t arson.” ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/135 "2011-07-08T11:11:12Z")
Oh well… [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43665986/ns/us\_news-crime\_and\_courts/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43665986/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/) > [@](#): > > "Texas executed a Mexican citizen Thursday for the rape-slaying of a teenager after he and the White House pleaded in vain for a Supreme Court stay, saying he was denied help from his home country that could have helped him avoid the death penalty. > > In his last minutes, Humberto Leal repeatedly said he was sorry and accepted responsibility. > > “I have hurt a lot of people. … I take full blame for everything. I am sorry for what I did,” he said in the death chamber. > > “One more thing,” he said as the drugs began taking effect. Then he shouted twice, “Viva Mexico!” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/136 "2011-07-08T14:29:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > When they refused him access, he hadn’t been convicted yet. Does presumption of innocence mean anything to you at all? Or are you one of the verdict first, then the trial types? That’s a bit much. Based on my (admittedly scant) knowledge of the story, they didn’t refuse him access; they just didn’t tell him he was entitled to it. That’s not quite the same thing as a Miranda warning. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/137 "2011-07-09T03:21:56Z")
I wish there were a thread about whether Rick Perry intends to jump into the race. In hopes it may some day come about, I thought I’d note that the governor is now recovering from [back surgery](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1024&bih=626&q=rick+perry+back+surgery&aq=1&aqi=g2g-b2&aql=&oq=rick+perry+back) that had been scheduled several months in advance. Getting that out of the way may be the final hurdle, and possibly one of the reasons he’s waited until now. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/138 "2011-07-10T13:38:29Z")
[http://conhomeusa.typepad.com/therepublican/2011/07/rick-perry-anti-obama.html](http://conhomeusa.typepad.com/therepublican/2011/07/rick-perry-anti-obama.html) > [@](#): > > Politico’s report today that Rick Perry is actively calling Iowans to assess his chances in the run-up to the Ames poll comes at an amazing moment for the Texas Governor: he has become the leading anti-Obama candidate (if he runs). > > What Pete Wehner has summarized as the bleak/horrible/awful/God-awful/dismal/terrible/absolutely flat out terrible jobs report this week may be the biggest blow yet to Obama’s presidency. > > snip > > Enter Rick Perry. His state created more than half of all new jobs in America in the past decade and 37 percent of new jobs since the recession. > > Obama is the anti-jobs President. Rick Perry, if he gets into the race, is the pro-jobs candidate. And that makes him the anti-Obama candidate in a way that the others cannot be. > > But only Perry can stand toe-to-toe with Obama on the issue of jobs and claim that, unlike the President, he knows what it means to preside over an energized, productive economy. > > Plus, with Texas’s economy about the size of Russia’s, Perry has the magnitude of his accomplishment on his side: simply put, Texas is just plain big, and its getting bigger by any measure - population, GDP, you name it. Only California is bigger as a state, and yet the Golden State is trending downward by just about every measure. Texas stands alone as a mega-state whose economy is a model for the nation. > > If Perry enters the race now, the expectations for him in the Ames poll will be fairly low, meaning that he stands a lot to gain. He would likely have a top three finish unless he does something disastrous or embarrassing between now and then. > > All signs suggest he’s getting in. If he does, he will quickly scramble the polls and give both Romney and Bachmann a few things to worry about. And that will be because he will give voters something to be hopeful about: executive leadership that knows something about opportunity, growth, and jobs ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/139 "2011-07-10T23:13:35Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/r9dUMJyzjtA/hqdefault.jpg "Texas Gov. Rick Perry Speaks to Republican Leadership Conference; Crowd Chants, "Run, Rick, Run!"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9dUMJyzjtA) Rick Perry’s speech to the Republican Leadership Conference in New Orleans last month. I think I found the guy I’m supporting. I’ll be in the car. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589/140 "2011-07-14T16:06:55Z")
[The Friends That Rick Perry Keeps](http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2011/07/the_friends_that_rick_perry_ke.php) > [@](#): > > Right Wing Watch has done an excellent job of going through all of the various co-sponsors and endorses of Rick Perry’s prayer rally next month in Houston and [pointing out](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/subjects/-response-prayer-rally) all the crazy things they’ve said. A lot of them are wingnuts that I’m familiar with saying the same old stupid things, but the [example of C. Peter Wagner](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/company-rick-perry-keeps-peter-wagner-sex-demons) caught my eye. This is an unusually creative bit of wingnuttia that is rather amusing to read. > > Wagner blames the earthquake in Japan on that country being “pagan” but he has a particularly fascinating explanation for how this happened. The Japanese emperor, you see, had sex with a demon… Methinks C. Peter Wagner has been watching too much hentai. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-perry-to-jump-into-the-race/583589.md?page=8)