People love using the word “rape”.
Come on Rick. No one died. Get a hold of yourself.
Yes, it’s such an exagerration in this case, we should really be more dainty about it. After all Sandusky simply loved those kids too much.
…
As horrifying as it is, it seems there are people in the world–in other colleges yet–who value their football program more than they value protecting kids from rape.
So let’s talk to them in their language. Let’s say, “Rape’s not as important as football? Fine. Reporting abuse won’t be done to protecting children from rape. You’ll do it to protect your program from the fate that befell Penn State. Now go tell the cops, motherfuckers.”
Make it a permanent thing, that’d be amazing. Make them the Carthage that’s held up to other barbarian cities, to say, “You sure you want to fuck with us on this issue?” Make fans and coaches scream in outrage at the outsized punishment: just because they let many children be raped, they’re not allowed to kick a ball around anymore!
Make it so.
I agree.
Almost any scandal in which the football coach wielded enough power to influence his superiors to behave unethically or illegally can be said to relate to football because it is by that program that the coach gained such power.
If, on the other hand, the football coach gained leverage from some other means, maybe incriminating photographs of the top admins in a 3-way, and used that as leverage, then it would be fair to isolate the coach from the football program. But every indication is that Paterno’s power and influence were derived from the football program indicating that it was out of control (clearly it was).
Note: I’m undecided regarding what makes sense for punishment
The problem as I see it is the deification of college coaches, so much so that even athletic directors and university presidents and board members are in their thrall.
That’s what needs to change. Quit turning these men into gods.
That goes for their families too: Joe Paterno Got Richer Contract Amid Jerry Sandusky Inquiry - The New York Times
It’s too bad JoePa died. He should have lived to see his name and legacy burned to ashes while his lying ass got thrown in prison. He got off way too easily.
You obviously know little about what child abuse can do to people, and not just the direct victims. There was nothing hyperbolic about his statement.
Exactly, you can’t let Penn State Football off the hook, because these guys committed their acts specifically to protect the program. They were willing to commit a felony and cover up the acts of a child molester to protect Penn State Football. That attitude has to be squashed, and the only way to do it is to punish Penn State, and hard, so the next guy faced with this knows that the cover up will be far worse than open admission.
So the class of 2016 shouldn’t have a football team to root for.
Yeah, that’ll show those slackers for condoning Sandusky’s actions!
I’m all for making the lives of guys like Spanier and Curley a living hell for having helped Paterno (I hate the designation ‘JoePa’ btw; makes it sound like people were freakin’ equating him with the state frequently abbreviated as Pa) cover up Sandusky’s crimes, and quite frankly I’d think it was fitting and proper if they exhumed Paterno’s body and hanged it from a gibbet in front of the admin building for a few weeks until the birds of carrion had their way with it.
And after that they should replace the entire Penn State board of trustees as expeditiously as possible, and the new board should oversee a similarly complete turnover in the Penn State administration, not to mention the athletic director’s office and the football program.
That’s far enough,and would certainly suffice to be the Carthaginian precedent that LHoD suggests. But by killing the football program itself, you’re dealing out punishment indiscriminately to the entire community for the crimes of a relative handful of people.
The Class of 2016 is peanuts. It’s the alumni that need to be punished.
The Class of 2016 can always root for the Pittsburgh Steelers or the Pittsburgh Panthers (heh. I like that idea). Nobody has a birthright to (an essentially professional) football team at their own college.
Nuke the program. For good. Banned from any NCAA football for the next 300 years. Paterno’s name erased from everything on campus. Complete replacement of trustees and administration. Burn the stadium to the ground and turn it into student parking.
Then start thinking of ways to punish them.
Oh, I’m sorry! I guess I didn’t realize the effect that having a good football team to root for affected the students university attendance decisions. Why, by all means then, please do carry on. Forget what I said earlier.
Most, if not all of the people involved in the Penn State fiasco were not mandatory reporters in the sense that they had a legal duty to notify the police.
Does it matter? The absence of those things should theoretically make people more likely to report, yet, we still see dismal results.
But it has almost nothing to do with the product on the field. There has never been a case where the death penalty was issued for bad actions that did not result in demonstrable effects on the field.
The people are being punished. And nobody has suggested they shouldn’t be. That doesn’t mean you should punish people who are only tangentially involved in some misguided sense of justice. Shutting down a football program that big directly affects thousands of people. People who made no other mistake than to work or attend PSU. Why should they suffer because some pedophile happened to coach there years ago?
Furthermore, the fact that people who find themselves in similar situations fail in similarly spectacular ways should make us appreciate how situations like this are typically not facilitated by solely by morally bankrupt cowards, but rather normal people who fail to rise to the occasion. In my mind, that doesn’t excuse people like McQuery and Paterno, but it does show how bad outcomes can arise from things other than malice and evil.
The USDOE could pull their accreditation if they wanted. My point was that the school covered it up not just to protect the football program, but also the university itself. Why should the football program die if the university lives? The same missteps that were made by football officials were made by university officials. Why is the justice they’re subject to so disparate?
If Paterno had been the dean at Wharton, and the circumstances were exactly the same, would anyone suggest shutting down the MBA program just to teach the administrators a lesson? Of course not. It’s only a question people are asking because they biased towards thinking football is expendable, and/or under the misapprehension that this situation only occurred because of the football program. Sorry but I don’t buy it.
Consider it ignorance fought then. Plenty of students choose to attend universities based in part on how good the schools are in sports. A school like Penn State would not be what it is without football, and taking that away for flimsy reasons will have profound affects on university as a whole.
Yeah, that’s the whole freaking point. The problem is that “a school like Penn State would not be what it is without football”. They SHOULD have profound effects, those students should not have a football team to cheer for and if it matters all that much they should take their dollars somewhere else. If this ends up being the death knell of the entire university that would be perfectly fine.
Flimsy would not be the word I’d use.
Then you must be unaware that the people involved are being brought up on charges due to the fact that they were mandatory reporters and failed to report. So no, you are incorrect that “most if not all of the people involved” were not mandatory reporters.
Sorry buddy, your argument that “other people don’t report rape too!” doesn’t really hold water, whatever the “dismal results”.
Okay. So? It was motivated by a culture that valued football so much, everything else was negligible in comparison to the football program. The program literally motivated them not to tell the police. If the idea is to punish them for letting a sports program dictate their behavior when it came to their legal obligations in other areas, then the death penalty is absolutely appropriate.
They are being punished, yes. But the culture that led to the scandal hasn’t changed. That’s essentially the goal of the death penalty anyway, isn’t it? Your sports program has gotten out of control, as a result you’re making poor decisions institutionally and we are going to penalize you for that fact. SMU’s president and athletic director resigned when their scandal was being investigated by the NCAA, and the school was still punished with the death penalty. Just because the individuals involved resign and “people have been punished” doesn’t mean that everything’s all cool now. They resigned to try and save the university embarrassment for what they’d obviously done. Your sports program has gotten out of control, as a result we’re going to remove that obviously misguided motivation that has encouraged you to break the rules, break the law, and let your priorities get out of whack.
Well, I dunno. Originally Curley and Schultz hatched a pretty extensive plan that involved notifying the authorities. Once they discussed matters with Paterno, their mind changed into the “humane” version they chose instead to go with. It seems to me that the influence of a football coach was disproportionately impactful to their decision making process. Why is the football program dying for a year so negatively impactful to the university itself that you can’t stick to just discussing the levels of the university that were involved, and we must nuke it from orbit or do nothing? Does Penn State literally have no other functions it is responsible than football, and if the NCAA forces them to put their program on hold for a year they might as well kill the entire school?
Yes, I believe the scandal did only happen because of the football program. See my earlier point re: talking to Paterno and changing course on what to do regarding the authorities. If there was no Paterno to talk to, no super valuable football program in existence to save, they would have notified the authorities.
Sorry you didn’t note the sarcasm in that post. Football is not, and should not, be such a redeeming quality in a school that the governing body that punishes them for infractions is unable to do so when warranted. I say this as a former school athlete and a sports fan.
They fucked up. Big time. Their football program got so out of control that janitors were literally convinced they would lose their jobs and the university would cover up sex abuse if they reported what they’d seen. Which is exactly what they did. You don’t get to keep a program that is so powerful that you are willing to cover up such egregious crimes in order to protect its reputation.
I’ll suggest an alernative look at this; the NCAA should kill the Penn State football program for the sake of the NCAA. Whether it hurts people at Penn State, and whether that harm is fair or not, isn’t really the NCAA’s concern. Their concern should be how it affects the whole of the NCAA, which is many more schools than Penn State.
The NCAA is a hopelessly screw up and corrupt organization, but even they must be able to see that the death penalty would be much, much better for the NCAA’s reputation than any other sanction. It would be a travesty, to the NCAA, to have it schedule football games involving Penn State next year.
They should dump Penn State for their own sake, and if that’s unfair to the Class of 2016, that’s too bad. but sometimes life is unfair. The NCAA has a right to protect itself.
Perhaps I am. Please cite that if you don’t mind. These articles says coaches are probably not madatory reporters under PA law. I would imagine the same applies for janitors, coach’s fathers, and the many others who did not call the police. I am aware they are being investigated for Cleary Act violations, but I don’t think most of the people who knew are considered mandatory reporters.
The university motivated them not to tell the police as well. Why should PSU continue to exist at all by your logic?
No, it’s not. You are either unfamiliar with the NCAA, or the history of the death penalty. It has never been used for the reasons you are suggesting it should.
Again, you are out of your depth here. The death penalty was given to SMU because they paid players, amongst other things. All of those things affected the actual football team, which makes it something the NCAA cares about. It’s not the NCAA’s job to punish bad people by taking away the things they like, even if they like it too much IYO.
So if the same thing happened at MIT, but Paterno was the dean of engineering, would you be suggesting they shut down the engineering dept? Please answer me that question before you go off on tangents and emotional appeals. Yes, football is why Paterno had power, but football was not why this whole thing happened, nor was it a necessary condition. More importantly, their decisions had nearly no effect on the actual football team. That’s why the NCAA should not care.
Again, more ignorance about the death penalty. Do you know how long it took SMU to recover? The NCAA is very reluctant to use it in part because of how destructive it was to the school in general. That said, the impact alone is not what should stop the NCAA from punishing PSU, it’s that the scandal is in now way logically connected to the product the school puts on the field.
What nonsense. Should we break up families where on member doesn’t report the abuse of another? Should the Catholic church lose all their soup kitchens because priests molested kids? At a certain point, justice becomes blind vengeance. I don’t see any other way to describe punishing thousands of people who count of football for actions that have nothing to do with them. I would imagine most are as disgusted as we are, so why should they suffer because their bad actor happens to be their boss.
It also puzzling to me why you keep harping on motivations of the PSU officials. The motivations of the enablers was just their rationalizing. If they didn’t have a football program or university to worry about, they probably would have concluded they it would be unfair to Sandusky’s family, or that it would hurt his charity too much. You act as though none of these things happen in the absence of powerful institutional forces.
It has nothing to do with the size, scope, influence, or culture of the football program itself. There is nothing inherent about Penn State football that led people to remain silent about abuse. People conspire to keep these things secret ALL THE TIME. Sandusky got the benefit of the doubt because his judge and jury was a guy he knew for 30 years. More evidence came, then, they were all complicit, and the truth became more of a legal, moral, and financial liability.
At least part of the reason that the NCAA exists is to ensure that sports doesn’t overtake the actual purpose of a university. Engineering is essential to a university’s mission. And if it had happened in an engineering department, the cause would not be the popularity of engineering among alumni and the general public. Football is not only not essential, its popularity was the direct cause of the university’s reaction. It’s not even remotely analogous. If football fans need a team so badly they can support the creation of a private commercial league unconnected with the university. They have proven that there’s enough money to support it.