# Rick Warren. Rick fucking Warren. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647 "2008-12-17T22:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/201 "2008-12-21T17:40:21Z")
Are they licensed to practice psychotherapy? Seems unlikely, given the state of current science on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/202 "2008-12-21T17:58:07Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Are they licensed to practice psychotherapy? Seems unlikely, given the state of current science on the subject. “Faith healing”, which would be construed to include faith-based therapy, is generally protected by the First Amendment guarantee of religious freedom. Also, under Nixon, the US Department of Health (then the Dept. of Health, Education & Welfare) issued a requirement for states to include language in their child abuse/neglect legislation allowing for religious exemptions - ie., preventing parents from being charged and/or punished for failing to obtain medical treatment for their children if they objected on religious grounds. That DoH requirement has long since ended, but few states have repealed the resulting legislation in the interim. I think a couple had the relevant statutes overturned by courts. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/203 "2008-12-22T09:12:21Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > What’s “funny” (as in, fucking sick) is that apparently a homosexual has to go through one of these programs before they can even [join the Saddleback church](http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509#q_49). > > No gays allowed. Boy, that’s some inclusiveness for you. But at least, there are no blatant signs on the water fountains or pews that say “Straights Only.” I don’t see the quoted text anywhere on that page. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/204 "2008-12-22T09:19:22Z")
Courtesy of the Wayback Machine: [Saddleback Church](http://web.archive.org/web/20071214040302/http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/membership/group_finder/faqs_smallgroup.asp?id=7509) ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/205 "2008-12-22T09:27:26Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > I don’t see the quoted text anywhere on that page. Holy shit! They took it down since I posted! I guess that quote was being bandied around the web a bit too much. Thanks for finding it via the Wayback Machine. I love the Wayback Machine. Oh by the way, this has been open in another window for 2 days, I just hadn’t gotten around to posting it. > [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Warren may not agree with the gay lifestyle but according to one of the Obamaniacs, “Obama and Warren agree on several issues, including advocating on behalf of the poor, the disadvantaged and **people who suffer from HIV/AIDS**.” This is only a small portion of the very informative blog. I’d highly suggest reading the whole thing. > [@](#): > > [Untold Consequences: Rick Warren’s AIDS Activism](http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism) > > Warren’s transformation into the evangelical AIDS “it person” is relatively recent…Warren’s own AIDS work, together with his wife Kay, began in 2002, ostensibly when Kay read a magazine article about the burgeoning population of AIDS orphans in Africa. That year, Warren led a group of evangelical churches in pushing a reluctant Bush administration to adopt a global AIDS policy, resulting in the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, or PEPFAR, launched in 2003… > > A division of aims within the global AIDS movement between those advocating for prevention funding and those working for treatment access helped draw faith-based groups. Though treatment and prevention are complementary in fighting HIV/AIDS, the entry of religious right activists exacerbated this divide between the two priorities. Treatment access advocates sought out partnership with evangelicals hoping for increased funding and attention for expensive treatment programs. But the faith-based solution naturally brought with it skewed policies that limited prevention options and led to what Jacobson calls the “profoundly ineffective” spending of AIDS money: with $20 billion spent on treatment over the past five years, but six new infections for every person treated… > > **But churches anxious to follow Warren’s lead didn’t want to provide comprehensive HIV prevention services, such as safer sex education or condoms,** so they lobbied for PEPFAR funding policy to be interpreted narrowly, creating stand-alone abstinence-until-marriage programs out of the law’s 30% abstinence-only earmark. **The new faith-based arm of the AIDS movement Warren had energized asked for, and got, a number of obstacles to prevention services: a prohibition on needle exchange programs for drug users; a ban family planning services in Prevention of Mother to Child Transmission clinics; and the anti-prostitution loyalty oath, which required all groups receiving PEPFAR funding, including those that work with sex workers, to condemn prostitution.** As with conscience clauses, Jacobson says, this ideological interpretation of PEPFAR became a source of U.S. funding that “allows groups or organizations to avoid having to provide prevention treatment or care according to evidence-based criteria.” > > Warren and his fellow evangelicals brought new visibility to the issue; simultaneously, faith-based AIDS groups such as Kay Warren’s HIV/AIDS Initiative at Saddleback Church began receiving significant funding through PEPFAR and disbursing it to organizations on the ground that follow their religious guidelines…How that flawed policy plays out can be disastrous. As journalist Michelle Goldberg noted at Religion Dispatches, **one of Warren’s protégés in Uganda, the rabidly anti-gay pastor Martin Ssempa, has interpreted Warren’s faith-driven solutions to the HIV/AIDS epidemic by burning condoms at universities and offering faith-healing to disease-stricken congregants. Other PEPFAR grantees, as Jacobson’s colleagues in the global AIDS movement have witnessed, use their funds to promote fundamentalist interpretations of marital roles, advising women that if their husbands beat them, they should try harder to please them.**" ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/206 "2008-12-22T19:34:41Z")
Can we reach for a consensus, here? I think we can agree that talk of impeachment is, well, premature. So, we’re stuck with him. Still, damn sight better than Johnny Mac, yes? Or, Goddess forbid, Sarah Moosekill. So, whats gonna be our takeaway? Well-intended, but tone deaf is mine. The more I learn about Mr Warren (whom I will not refer to as “Reverend”, though I’m perfectly happy to extend such courtesy to other Christian ministers), the less I like. On the other hand, we are all a damn cite better off with well-intended but clumsy, yes? Do we criticize and forgive, or criticize and begrudge? Looks like some pretty rough weather ahead, so its a lead-pipe cinch he’s going to have to make some unpopular decisions, or else make some very, very bad ones. Do we trust him, or no? I say yeah, what say you? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/207 "2008-12-22T23:25:54Z")
According to Mike Rogers, of PageOneQ, the church changed its website in response to Obama’s outreach. Rogers commended Warren for his change in attitude, and Obama for facilitating it. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/208 "2008-12-22T23:58:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Do we criticize and forgive, or criticize and begrudge? Looks like some pretty rough weather ahead, so its a lead-pipe cinch he’s going to have to make some unpopular decisions, or else make some very, very bad ones. Do we trust him, or no? Try to please everyone and you’ll please no one. I don’t think he’s ever promised to solve all of the nation’s problems, just that he was going to approach them differently. He’s not a dicatator, after all. His recognition of that fact, all by itself, makes him tons better than Bush. I say back off and let the man work. ---
**Author:** ![Daffyd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daffyd/32/8923_2.png) [@Daffyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daffyd)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/209 "2008-12-23T00:04:03Z")
I’ll forgive him the day he actually does something for the LGBT community - like puts forward legislation to repeal DOMA. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/210 "2008-12-23T04:20:45Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > According to Mike Rogers, of PageOneQ, the church changed its website in response to Obama’s outreach. Rogers commended Warren for his change in attitude, and Obama for facilitating it. Has the church changed its practices, or just the clip art on its business cards? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/211 "2008-12-23T05:28:25Z")
[Melissa Etheridge on Rick Warren](http://www.shewired.com/Article.cfm?ID=21228) > [@](#): > > Despite her preconceived notions of Warren, based on public opinion, Etheridge discovered that the pastor is a fan of her music. “This didn’t sound like a gay hater, much less a preacher,” Etheridge wrote. > > “He explained in very thoughtful words that as a Christian he believed in equal rights for everyone. He believed every loving relationship should have equal protection. He struggled with proposition 8 because he didn’t want to see marriage redefined as anything other than between a man and a woman,” Etheridge wrote. > > Just last week Etheridge faced off with The View’s conservative co-host Elisabeth Hasselbeck over gay marriage, but Etheridge --who’s married to Tammy Lynn Michaels, with whom she’s raising a family – listened to Warren when he told her he regretted a sermon he delivered to his congregation in which he mentioned the anti-gay marriage measure Prop. 8, incest and pedophiles in the same breath. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/212 "2008-12-23T05:47:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Do we criticize and forgive, or criticize and begrudge? Looks like some pretty rough weather ahead, so its a lead-pipe cinch he’s going to have to make some unpopular decisions, or else make some very, very bad ones. Do we trust him, or no? > > I say yeah, what say you? I vote for criticize and begrudge. Even if he does all the wonderful things I think he will, this shouldn’t be forgotten. I don’t know about forgiven. I’m certainly not there yet. To say “fuck you” to people who were already hurting is unforgivable. The fact that it didn’t even occur to him how this would look and feel to gays and their supporters after the painful losses of Prop 8, Arizona, Arkansas and Florida means he has a long LONG way to go in sensitivity training, and all the happy crappy “fierce advocate” bullshit rhetoric doesn’t negate anything. He should know how much this hurts, even if he doesn’t care. Even if the majority of American people don’t care. This hurts bad, and it will continue to hurt no matter how much soothing and cuckling goes on. Oh, I’m certainly glad he won, don’t misunderstand. The alternative is too horrifying to contemplate. His choices for the science positions and his stance on science in general is in itself enough to make him a billion times better than McCain/Palin, and Bush/Cheney, but all the same, the Warren pick was an incredibly, _unbelievably_, breathtakingly insensitive boneheaded move. Presidents are allowed to make mistakes, but they shouldn’t be glossed over or forgotten. Bush is going to literally get away with murder. Now THAT’S a crime. Compared to Republicans glossing over and forgetting Bush’s crimes, I think people should give those of us who are angry and upset about a non-crime some space and the benefit of the doubt. If there are any bright spots at all, it’s that 1) freeper types, who while thrilled that Obama has done something to piss off homosexuals, are really hating on Warren’s ass too, and 2) Warren’s hateful stances are now out there for the world to see. He can hide his hate on his website. He can make kissy kissy nicey nicey with Melissa Etheridge. He can bullshit the blacks at the Martin Luther King Jr. Center. He can be all huggy with his good friend Barack, but his vile bile is now stinking in the sunlight. A whole new group of people will be watching everything he does from now on and keeping track. That’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/213 "2008-12-23T05:55:42Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Has the church changed its practices, or just the clip art on its business cards? Obama believes that the way to reach people and have them listen to you in the first place is to change the way we talk and write about the issues that divide us. Fair-minded words. Read his [Call to Renewal Keynote Address](http://www.barackobama.com/2006/06/28/call_to_renewal_keynote_address.php). He closes with an anecdote about receiving some correspondence that caused him to remove some inflammatory language from his own website during the Primary campaign. > [@Barack Obama](#): > > . . . > > So let me end with just one other interaction I had during my campaign. A few days after I won the Democratic nomination in my U.S. Senate race, I received an email from a doctor at the University of Chicago Medical School that said the following: > > “Congratulations on your overwhelming and inspiring primary win. I was happy to vote for you, and I will tell you that I am seriously considering voting for you in the general election. I write to express my concerns that may, in the end, prevent me from supporting you.” > > The doctor described himself as a Christian who understood his commitments to be “totalizing.” His faith led him to a strong opposition to abortion and gay marriage, although he said that his faith also led him to question the idolatry of the free market and quick resort to militarism that seemed to characterize much of the Republican agenda. > > But the reason the doctor was considering not voting for me was not simply my position on abortion. Rather, he had read an entry that my campaign had posted on my website, which suggested that I would fight “right-wing ideologues who want to take away a woman’s right to choose.” The doctor went on to write: > > “I sense that you have a strong sense of justice…and I also sense that you are a fair minded person with a high regard for reason…Whatever your convictions, if you truly believe that those who oppose abortion are all ideologues driven by perverse desires to inflict suffering on women, then you, in my judgment, are not fair-minded…You know that we enter times that are fraught with possibilities for good and for harm, times when we are struggling to make sense of a common polity in the context of plurality, when we are unsure of what grounds we have for making any claims that involve others…I do not ask at this point that you oppose abortion, only that you speak about this issue in fair-minded words.” > > Fair-minded words. > > So I looked at my website and found the offending words. In fairness to them, my staff had written them using standard Democratic boilerplate language to summarize my pro-choice position during the Democratic primary, at a time when some of my opponents were questioning my commitment to protect Roe v. Wade. > > Re-reading the doctor’s letter, though, I felt a pang of shame. It is people like him who are looking for a deeper, fuller conversation about religion in this country. They may not change their positions, but they are willing to listen and learn from those who are willing to speak in fair-minded words. Those who know of the central and awesome place that God holds in the lives of so many, and who refuse to treat faith as simply another political issue with which to score points. > > So I wrote back to the doctor, and I thanked him for his advice. The next day, I circulated the email to my staff and changed the language on my website to state in clear but simple terms my pro-choice position. And that night, before I went to bed, I said a prayer of my own - a prayer that I might extend the same presumption of good faith to others that the doctor had extended to me. > > . . . He believes his approach holds more promise for success. Nothing else we’ve tried has worked so far, so I’m willing to give his way a chance before condemning it. Obviously its already had an effect on Rick Warren. I can’t stomach Rick Warren or his hateful, distorted opinions. But neither can I stomach Tom “[The gay] agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today” Coburn, and yet Obama reached out to him to enact the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act, which gave us [www.usaspending.gov](http://www.usaspending.gov), and earned him a great deal of respect from one of the Rightiest Righties on the Right side of the Right. > [@](#): > > . . . “That’s an odd alliance,” remarked a senior Democratic leadership aide. > > But an aide to Coburn said that his boss admires Obama’s integrity. > > “He has a lot of respect for him,” said John Hart, Coburn’s communications director. “He sees him as someone who has a good heart and principled and not mindlessly partisan. He sometimes finds it easier to work with a liberal Democrat than a Republican who isn’t true to his principles.” > > . . . > > [http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/22689](http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/22689) We’re not going to change hearts and minds by ostracizing those who we hope to sway. Just my two cents, for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/214 "2008-12-23T07:37:32Z")
Come on, choosing a spiritual leader who doesn’t preach hate **for the Inauguration Invocation** is light years from “ostracizing” religious bigots. Very few people are suggesting ostracizing the fundies (well, I would, since I think they should be shunned out of polite society, but I rightly wouldn’t expect anyone else to agree with me). Have some meetings. Go eat breakfast with them. Continue networking the way he did during the campaign. This is all about _Inauguration Day_ only. All he’s done by the choice is ostracize a large group of people who were already in pain from being smacked down throughout the centuries and had their happiness on Election Day dashed with the cold burning water of hate and exclusion. Now millions can’t fully enjoy Inauguration Day either knowing what a horrific bigot Warren is. I know they don’t matter to most people and should just “get over it” but if I, a non gay, am having real problems coming to terms with this, I certainly can’t blame those who are affected every day by predjudice and hate and are hurting much much more than my comfy married-for-27years ass. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/215 "2008-12-23T08:30:05Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Obama believes that the way to reach people and have them listen to you in the first place is to change the way we talk and write about the issues that divide us. It’s almost as though some people didn’t even listen to him during his campaign. Do you suppose it was just “Hey, we got a black guy!” and then the rest was only noise? “He opposes what? Gay what? I can’t hear you, he’s black! Hurrah!” ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/216 "2008-12-23T08:45:46Z")
I knew he was against gay marriage. He said that quite clearly. Still, he was was for civil unions and against Prop 8. I didn’t vote for him because he was black either. I voted for him because he’s intelligent and in every single other way far superior to the McCain/Palin ticket. Oh, and he was a Democrat of course. I think he’s our country’s greatest hope to not go down the toilet. The country will see great things from him, and that includes advances in gay rights. I still believe in him overall, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be upset with this choice. Why is the fact that some of us are highly upset with this one thing proof that we “only voted for him because he was black” (which makes no sense anyway) or that we’re not going to “give him a chance” (as if we could do anything else)? Jesus, it’s gotten to the point where people smacking down and mocking those of us who are upset is almost worse than the Warren pick. At least it’s not as bad here as elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/217 "2008-12-23T11:51:01Z")
This is horrific. I’m not saying Rick Warren or the Yes on 8 people caused this, the perps are totally responsible and of course straight women are assaulted every day, but when gays and lesbians are demonized, it can insinuate itself into people’s brains. Did these thugs _target_ this woman _because_ she was a lesbian? It’s very possible. [Richmond police seek 4 in gang rape of lesbian](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/21/BAQT14SAK1.DTL) > [@](#): > > Police are offering a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest and conviction of four men who allegedly kidnapped and gang-raped for nearly an hour a 28-year-old Richmond woman, who was left naked when they fled in her car. > > **The crime, which occurred on Dec. 13, is being investigated as a hate crime because of comments the suspects made about the victim’s sexual orientation, police said. The woman is openly lesbian and had a rainbow sticker on her license plate, a symbol of gay pride.** > > “The emotional impact has changed her life,” said Lt. Mark Gagan of the Richmond Police Department. “It is an absolute nightmare for her to have gone through. For 45 minutes, four strangers brutalized her.” > > The ordeal began around 9:30 p.m. in the 1500 block of Visalia Avenue in Richmond’s Belding-Wood neighborhood, said Gagan. > > The woman was sexually assaulted in that location after she got out of her car, police said. Then she was forced back into her vehicle after the suspects noticed someone approaching. She was driven seven blocks away to the 1300 block of Burbeck Avenue, where she was repeatedly sexually assaulted near an apartment complex, Gagan said. > > After the attack, the men drove off in her car, police said. She sought help from a nearby resident who called police. > > She was taken to a local hospital and treated for her injuries. Her car was recovered the next day in Richmond. > > The attackers are being sought on charges of assault with a deadly weapon, robbery, kidnapping, carjacking and sexual assault. The charges carry a hate crime enhancement. > > …[suspect’s descriptions at link] ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/218 "2008-12-23T13:01:07Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I knew he was against gay marriage. He said that quite clearly. Still, he was was for civil unions and against Prop 8. I didn’t vote for him because he was black either. I voted for him because he’s intelligent and in every single other way far superior to the McCain/Palin ticket. Oh, and he was a Democrat of course. > > I think he’s our country’s greatest hope to not go down the toilet. The country will see great things from him, and that includes advances in gay rights. I still believe in him overall, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be upset with this choice. > > Why is the fact that some of us are highly upset with this one thing proof that we “only voted for him because he was black” (which makes no sense anyway) or that we’re not going to “give him a chance” (as if we could do anything else)? > > Jesus, it’s gotten to the point where people smacking down and mocking those of us who are upset is almost worse than the Warren pick. At least it’s not as bad here as elsewhere. Who said your behavior was “proof” of anything? I realize that, as a Democrat, you’re not used to having an actual leader actually lead. But honestly, if you want to sit at the grownups’ table in politics, you’re going to have to blow off that 1960s hissy-fit manner of interacting with people. Show some fucking class. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/219 "2008-12-23T13:23:57Z")
It’s called “empathy” man. Look it up. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2008, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/220 "2008-12-23T13:24:18Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Who said your behavior was “proof” of anything? I realize that, as a Democrat, you’re not used to having an actual leader actually lead. But honestly, if you want to sit at the grownups’ table in politics, you’re going to have to blow off that 1960s hissy-fit manner of interacting with people. Show some fucking class. Liberal, let me float an analogy for you. Suppose he’d picked a pastor who was known for preaching that the US Army’s campaign of genocide against Native Americans in the 18th, 19th and early 20th Centuries was justified, that the NA dominance over the New World was a historical mistake fostered by Satan and the steamrolling of the NA tribes in the United States was a crusade led by God. That the only Native Americans who could be acceptable Christians were those who completely denied their traditions and heritage and became, for all intents and purposes, white people culturally. This is not just queers having a hissy-fit. This is the culmination of a really rotten couple of years for queer people building to a head of steam with the Warren pick. It’s like if GW Bush had invited Richard Dawkins to speak at his inauguration. You don’t think the evangelicals etc. would be having meltdowns? Forgive me for being suspicious of all of these very, very recent “changes” in Warren’s attitude. It smells an awful lot like someone who’s realized that this could generate bad PR trying to scrub their reputation. If it’s spent the last 40 years being a rat, I’m not going to be convinced if it puts on a tail toupee and pretends to be a squirrel. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=12)