# Rick Warren. Rick fucking Warren. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647 "2008-12-17T22:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/241 "2008-12-24T14:17:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Sucking up to the bigoted right isn’t “leadership”. It is, however, exactly the kind of spinelessness I expect from the Democrats. Maybe he’s just sucking up to the bigoted left. In California Obama got 61% of the vote, while Proposition 8 got 52% of its vote. Since they sum to over 100%, this suggests there would have to be significant overlap between the two - 13% of the population or more. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/242 "2008-12-24T15:19:34Z")
Well, here’s what I think he’s up to. Your correspondent freely admits to possessing no more telepathy than any other brilliant person, but here goes: He can’t sell “gay marriage”. And its that one word, “marriage”. Rational? Hell, no. But you got the lemons, you make the lemonade. What can be sold is “civil unions”. A law here, a law there, a bit of fudging. Mutual inheritance, visitation rights as “family members”, all that sort of thing can probably be done without a great deal of weeping and gnashing of teeth. Just leave out the word “marriage”, and America can shrug and go on about its business. Now, I’m not gay nor have I ever actually “married”. (Something about being “hard to live with”…go figure.) But I want everybody who’s pulling on this end of the rope to get as much as they can, they’re my team. And this may be it, for now. Take it. Establish it as common practice, let it get ordinary. Consolidate, in a word. And then…then!..renegotiate. Ask for the moon, take what you can get, hold on to what you got, and reach for more. It works. Years upon years of progressive struggle have shown that. Now that lacks all the Byronic energy of rage and defiance, its dull and tedious, its Obama, and not Che. But do you want to fight? Or do you want to win? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/243 "2008-12-24T17:16:11Z")
Speaking of incremental gains: [Pat Robertson disses Bush, praises Obama](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/12/24/pat-robertson-criticizes-bush-praises-obama/). Yes, THAT Pat Robertson. The cynic in me snarls that he’s just trying to latch onto the latest power train, but even so – Holy Guacamole, for someone like him to believe in the first place that publicly saying nice things about Obama would be a smart move for him – well, sweet baby Jesus, don’t cry no more! ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/244 "2008-12-24T17:24:36Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Speaking of incremental gains: [Pat Robertson disses Bush, praises Obama](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/12/24/pat-robertson-criticizes-bush-praises-obama/). > > Yes, THAT Pat Robertson. The cynic in me snarls that he’s just trying to latch onto the latest power train, but even so – Holy Guacamole, for someone like him to believe in the first place that publicly saying nice things about Obama would be a smart move for him – well, sweet baby Jesus, don’t cry no more! > [@](#): > > Robertson said Tuesday he was optimistic about the incoming Obama administration. “I am remarkably pleased with Obama,” he told Malveaux. “I had grave misgivings about him. But so help me, he’s come in forcefully, intelligently. He’s picked a middle of the road cabinet. And so far, if he continues down this course, he has the makings of a great president. So, I’m very pleased so far.” Wow, just wow. I am shocked. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/245 "2008-12-24T19:14:47Z")
I think Pat has had a chubby for Obama for some time. He gushed openly on camera about Obama’s nomination acceptance speech during an MSNBC post-speech panel. The next day Palin was released upon the world, though, so it didn’t get much press, I don’t think. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/246 "2008-12-24T19:32:36Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Homosexuals. At least, he’s making it clear that he intends to continue to do so, by among other things inviting an anti-homosexual bigot (blah,blah,blah) Just as happened with the oh-so-tolerant youth of the 60’s. I know people have said it here before, but I’m feeling extra full of joy since it’s the eve of the birf of the little baby jesus and whatnot, so, um, you’re an asshole. oh, and merry christmas. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/247 "2008-12-24T19:36:07Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I think Pat has had a chubby for Obama for some time. The image that sentence evokes is like an anti-Christmas present. Thanks a lot… ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/248 "2008-12-24T19:37:57Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You’re a fucking cockroach, and wouldn’t know leadership if it bit you in the exoskeleton. This ain’t Great Debates where only you get to hurl insults at people without consequence. So take you words to me and shove them up your ass because I piss on them, disrespect them, and hold them to be worthless. Actually you talk much the same there. And similarly neglect to, you know, actually argue against my position. > [@elucidator](#): > > What can be sold is “civil unions”. A law here, a law there, a bit of fudging. Mutual inheritance, visitation rights as “family members”, all that sort of thing can probably be done without a great deal of weeping and gnashing of teeth. Just leave out the word “marriage”, and America can shrug and go on about its business. > > Now, I’m not gay nor have I ever actually “married”. (Something about being “hard to live with”…go figure.) But I want everybody who’s pulling on this end of the rope to get as much as they can, they’re my team. And this may be it, for now. In other words, segregation. Which is ultimately a LOSS. It means that they are cooperating with their second class status being written into law. Well, third or fourth class is more like it, given that murderers and pedophiles can get married but not same sex couples. > [@elucidator](#): > > Take it. Establish it as common practice, let it get ordinary. Consolidate, in a word. And then…then!..renegotiate. Ask for the moon, take what you can get, hold on to what you got, and reach for more. It works. Years upon years of progressive struggle have shown that. > > Now that lacks all the Byronic energy of rage and defiance, its dull and tedious, its Obama, and not Che. More like Uncle Tom, and not Martin Luther King Jr. This is just another version of segregation, and just like segregation it isn’t progress at all; it’s the hardening of prejudice into law. It won’t make people more tolerant; it’ll make them less tolerant if anything. And suck same sex couples into civil unions, which will make them targets for organized, government run bigotry - that’s what civil unions ARE. > [@elucidator](#): > > But do you want to fight? Or do you want to win? Civil unions aren’t a win. That’s why they were created. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/249 "2008-12-24T19:39:27Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] The image that sentence evokes is like an anti-Christmas present. Thanks a lot… [/QUOTE] Dee-Leete! Apply directly to the cerebellum! Removes unwanted mental imagery fast, fast, _fast_! Dee Leete! Apply directly to the cerebellum!.. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/250 "2008-12-25T15:33:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Civil unions aren’t a win. That’s why they were created. I see. You want a duck. You don’t want something that walks, quacks, eats fish and has feathers, and that’s genetically identical to a duck. You want a _duck_, goddammit, and anything else is a slap in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/251 "2008-12-25T15:36:37Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > I see. You want a duck. > > You don’t want something that walks, quacks, eats fish and has feathers, and that’s genetically identical to a duck. > > You want a _duck_, goddammit, and anything else is a slap in the face. Artificial duck tastes like crap and gives you the runs too. ---
**Author:** ![Discordia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Discordia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discordia)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/252 "2008-12-25T15:45:55Z")
Some people clearly need to learn the concept of choosing your battles. Like the imploding economy, or the coming energy catastrophe, or some piddling thing like that. But hey, if you get into a culture war with the Republicans who use it to avoid discussing important issues, and your country slides into ruin, at least you’ll be able to feel _righteous_. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/253 "2008-12-25T16:12:13Z")
People can be concerned about civil rights along with other things. It’s called multitasking in thinking. Civil rights shouldn’t be put on the back burner just there are other problems too. That’s keeping homosexuals at 2nd class status, and that’s what the conservatives want. We’re supposed to be the good guys. We’re supposed to be the ones who care. People blowing off this slap in the face by Obama just because he’s _Obama_ is really pissing me off. It’s possible to support his presidency and still see this as a huge, insensitive mistake. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/254 "2008-12-25T16:24:02Z")
> [@Discordia](#): > > Some people clearly need to learn the concept of choosing your battles. Like the imploding economy, or the coming energy catastrophe, or some piddling thing like that. > > But hey, if you get into a culture war with the Republicans who use it to avoid discussing important issues, and your country slides into ruin, at least you’ll be able to feel _righteous_. That’s like excusing the incarceration of Japanese-Americans during World War II because, hey, we’ve got a war to win! We can’t be concerned with lesser issues like civil rights. To paraphrase Obama, we can fight more than one battle at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/255 "2008-12-25T16:29:32Z")
“But hey, I’m not a Jap, why should I care?” ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/256 "2008-12-25T17:06:19Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > “But hey, I’m not a Jap, why should I care?” _applause_ ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/257 "2008-12-25T17:24:40Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Artificial duck tastes like crap and gives you the runs too. Seriously, what’s “artificial” about civil unions? The fact that they wouldn’t be called “marriages” by your church, but would bestow exactly the same civil rights? We’re not happy unless the terminology matches what the exact same thing is called by heterosexual couples? And comparing Rick Warren giving an invocation to perpetuation of segregation and to the internment of Japanese Americans is the type of hysterical rhetoric beloved by right wingers. Y’know why? Because it draws “us and them” lines for the complacent majority and fortifies unjust differences encoded into law that _we’re_ trying to change and _they’re_ trying to protect. But hey, keep driving that wedge. Looks good when _you_ do it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/258 "2008-12-25T17:53:56Z")
[QUOTE] > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Actually you talk much the same there. And similarly neglect to, you know, actually argue against my position. You’d have to 1. have a position that made sense and was worth arguing against. ``` 2. be able to argue your point in some reasonable and rational way ``` Although you’ve demonstrated these two things occasionally in the past this doesn’t seem to be one of those times. and now we’ll see the obligatory semantic games to show that we’re afraid of your piercing logic. {yawn} ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/259 "2008-12-25T17:59:16Z")
Darndest thing happened. As I was pecking away at a previous post about “civil unions”, I thought about a catching point. Likely enough to advance civil unions on a state level, but what about the Feds? That’s a whole different kettle of piranha, isn’t it? How long would it take to chip away until Federal recognition of inheritance, pension rights, partnership, that sort of thing. And lo! [http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/24/bush-gay-benefits/](http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/24/bush-gay-benefits/) **“Bush signs law protecting retirement savings for gay couples.”** > [@](#): > > …Yesterday, Bush signed into law the Worker, Retiree and Employer Recovery Act of 2008 (WRERA), requiring employers to allow employees to roll their retirement plans over to nonspouse partners. The Human Rights Campaign hailed the bill for allowing gay couples to share benefits:… Aside from this interuption, where were we? Ah, yes, we were discussing how compromise towards progress is impossible, merely a device for oppression and its advocates cravenly betraying the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2008, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/260 "2008-12-25T18:00:13Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Seriously, what’s “artificial” about civil unions? The fact that they wouldn’t be called “marriages” by your church, but would bestow exactly the same civil rights? We’re not happy unless the terminology matches what the exact same thing is called by heterosexual couples? Civil unions in many (if not most) places _don’t_ convey the same legal rights as marriage. I’m sure there have been cites galore in this and other threads. > [@xenophon41](#): > > And comparing Rick Warren giving an invocation to perpetuation of segregation and to the internment of Japanese Americans is the type of hysterical rhetoric beloved by right wingers. Y’know why? Because it draws “us and them” lines for the complacent majority and fortifies unjust differences encoded into law that _we’re_ trying to change and _they’re_ trying to protect. > > But hey, keep driving that wedge. Looks good when _you_ do it. I think the one who’s driving the wedge is Rick Warren (and his ilk), comparing homosexuality to bestiality and incest, and comparing anyone who’s pro-choice to holocaust deniers. Just because you don’t consider homosexual’s rights to be on par with the oppression of blacks and other minorities is really a reflection on you, not those of us who are making (trying to make, to the willfully blind) the connection. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=14)