# Rick Warren. Rick fucking Warren. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647 "2008-12-17T22:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/321 "2008-12-26T19:43:23Z")
Okay, rope-a-dope. I get it. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/322 "2008-12-26T19:47:18Z")
Oh by the way: yes. I know his perspective quite well. I know all about it, from the inside. So you can drop that bullshit too if you please. Sometimes a position is just fucking wrong, Lib, and no amount of holding hands and singing songs will ever make it right. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/323 "2008-12-26T20:06:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > With all due respect, you’re as dense as a Quasar. You don’t end the hatred and ignorance of one man by compounding his hatred and ignorance with hatred and ignorance of your own. Do you have any idea _why_ he sees things the way he does? Have you ever thought he might feel just as threatened as you do? Yeah, I know you’ll laugh or pooh-pooh the notion that his greviance is as genuine and worthy of examination as yours. After all, that’s the nature of, well, natural man, I guess. But if what you really want to do is end the hatred, then Obama is setting the example for what you need to do. If you prefer just licking wounds, then proceed. We all understand the point you’re making about how you’ve suffered and all that. Many of us have suffered from the prejudices and bigotry of others. Buy until we stop to take a look at their point of view, we’re just as ignorant of theirs as they are of ours. I do know that there are truly evil people out there, just bullies who want to hurt others. But that’s not always, and maybe not even usually, the case. Maybe it’s not the case with Rick Warren. Maybe by winning him over, you can advance your cause for justice by years or decades. But if you keep doing what you’re doing, you might just keep getting what you’re getting. **Liberal** , be patient with me here (I stopped posting in this thread because no one is listening to the other person at this point and no one seems to have any suggestions for anybody who’d have been better than Warren to deliver the unnecessary invocation (even though the question was asked), but I digress): So, here, are you saying stop getting up in arms, quit whining and quietly let us continue to oppress you, or we’ll really give you a reason to get up in arms, whine and loudly shout oppression over! I guess I’m just asking because I’m just not seeing how validating someone (anyone) with views like Warren’s,\* that come from their religious beliefs, is going to change them over to a more accepting point of view. - And who tried to backpedal the way he did the other night on Youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/324 "2008-12-26T21:56:57Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Maybe by winning him over, you can advance your cause for justice by years or decades. But if you keep doing what you’re doing, you might just keep getting what you’re getting. I don’t believe in this ‘post partisan’ nonsense that Obama supporters keep on peddling. Maybe Obama should reach out to every Holocaust denier or every KKK head. Then he can win them over with his mystical powers. Bigotry has only ever been won by shaming bigots. By inviting Rick Warren over and having him do the invocation, he is providing cover to Rick Warren’s bigotry. \*Why should anyone be ashamed of being bigoted against gays? Even Rick Warren got invited to do Obama’s invocation. \* See how that works? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/325 "2008-12-26T21:57:29Z")
> [@5-4-Fighting](#): > > So, here, are you saying stop getting up in arms, quit whining and quietly let us continue to oppress you, or we’ll really give you a reason to get up in arms, whine and loudly shout oppression over! Me? No. I’m saying that your oppression is more likely to end sooner if you take the high road and reach out to some of those among your perceived enemies who are influential enough to bring about the kind of change you seek in a much more timely fashion than you could by continuing to treat them as enemies. I’m saying that it is possible that Rick Warren is approachable and reasonable, despite what some people might say. I’m saying that Obama is doing things the right way for a person whose goal is as I advocate. I said all those things in what you quoted. I think you may be on to something when you say that “no one is listening to the other person”. Look at it this way. What more harm could it do to say, “Okay, Rick, let’s talk about this thing.” The worst he can do is say no. But if he says okay, then you’ve made progress. And isn’t progress what progressives seek? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/326 "2008-12-26T22:04:01Z")
> [@Ensign\_Edison](#): > > Yeah, but I can’t marry you in the morning. Count your blessings. ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/327 "2008-12-26T22:04:32Z")
The harm in the gesture, Lib is that he is providing cover to the bigotry in the foolish hope that Rick Warren will eventually become a champion of gay rights which everyone knows will not happen. Rick Warren didn’t use reason in coming up with his position on gays - I don’t see him using reason to get out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/328 "2008-12-26T22:06:33Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > By inviting Rick Warren over and having him do the invocation, he is providing cover to Rick Warren’s bigotry. That would be true if he did not counter Warren’s bigotry by saying that he believes gay and lesbian Americans specifically should have rights equal to all other Americans — the first US president in my memory to do so. When a person has the moral high ground, his being gracious establishes the fact that his moral ground is indeed higher than that of the person who is the recipient of said grace. > [@](#): > > \*Why should anyone be ashamed of being bigoted against gays? Even Rick Warren got invited to do Obama’s invocation. \* See how that works? With all due respect, I think that’s pretty much how a four-year-old sees things. Jesus ate dinner openly with whores and tax collectors not to show tolerance of their moral choices, but to show them the fruits of His own better choices. I think Obama understands that sort of ethical model. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/329 "2008-12-26T22:07:57Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > The harm in the gesture, Lib is that he is providing cover to the bigotry in the foolish hope that Rick Warren will eventually become a champion of gay rights which everyone knows will not happen. Rick Warren didn’t use reason in coming up with his position on gays - I don’t see him using reason to get out of it. Who said anything about reason? It isn’t about reason; it’s about grace. Christians recognize a phenomenon called “conviction”. To change, Warren need only be convicted by the grace Obama has shown. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/330 "2008-12-26T23:52:50Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That would be true if he did not counter Warren’s bigotry by saying that he believes gay and lesbian Americans specifically should have rights equal to all other Americans — the first US president in my memory to do so. When a person has the moral high ground, his being gracious establishes the fact that his moral ground is indeed higher than that of the person who is the recipient of said grace. > > With all due respect, I think that’s pretty much how a four-year-old sees things. Jesus ate dinner openly with whores and tax collectors not to show tolerance of their moral choices, but to show them the fruits of His own better choices. I think Obama understands that sort of ethical model. And that’s straining to see things as a learned theologian would see it. I’d like to see something somewhere halfway in between that and a four-year-olds point of view – a selection that accomplishes the same thing you wish will happen – in deed and in word. Someone Obama could have selected to give the invocation who has lead a spiritual life _preaching less hate and condemnation_ and that selection itself a demonstration by Obama’s action that his _selection denotes a tent of inclusion is that is the largest possible_. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/331 "2008-12-26T23:54:39Z")
He did that with his benedictory selection. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/332 "2008-12-27T01:13:02Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Do you have any idea _why_ he sees things the way he does? Because he’s an evil bigot who follows an evil, bigoted religion. Not that it matters much; there is NO valid justification for his attitude. > [@Liberal](#): > > Have you ever thought he might feel just as threatened as you do? Yeah, I know you’ll laugh or pooh-pooh the notion that his greviance is as genuine and worthy of examination as yours. After all, that’s the nature of, well, natural man, I guess. No, it’s the nature of objective reality. Warren is a threat to gays; gays are not a threat to Warren. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/333 "2008-12-27T02:30:42Z")
So… Rick Warren. Better or worse than Billy Graham? (1989 Invocation) William Cannon apparently did Carter’s. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/334 "2008-12-27T03:30:55Z")
Joel Osteen. Hands down. Jesus as Amway. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/335 "2008-12-27T03:38:36Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > So… Rick Warren. Better or worse than Billy Graham? (1989 Invocation) > William Cannon apparently did Carter’s. Interesting fact: the preacher who did both Reagan’s and Bush I’s inaugural invocations, [Rev. Peter Gomes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_J._Gomes), is gay. He came out in 1991. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/336 "2008-12-27T03:42:21Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > The poor and disadvantaged have more rights than gays,… Well, then, where do poor gays fall on the spectrum? In other words, relax. Take comfort in **Miller’s** words. This is simply a gesture. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/337 "2008-12-27T06:46:06Z")
Hm. But was he hiding it or just liberal? Seems like a heck of a preacher from the wiki. I’m kind of not sure about why Warren is in the position he is in. Clearly, he’s got _something_, if he got this gig _after_ he screwed Obama in the semidebate. So… what is it? If we can figure out the why, then we can figure out what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/338 "2008-12-27T06:47:24Z")
For any who are interested, Barack Obama has a brief survey on his campaign website, where they ask some general questions about your level of involvement in the campaign, if you’d be willing to volunteer during his administration, and what issues are most important to you. > [@](#): > > What issues would you be most interested in volunteering or organizing around? (Check all that apply): > > Accountability & Openness in Government > Agriculture & Farming > Budget & Taxes > **Civil Liberties & Privacy** > Civil Rights & Voting Rights > Crime > Defense & National Security > Divisive Politics & Partisanship > Economy > Education > Election Reform & Campaign Finance > Energy & Transportation > Environment & Global Warming > Ethics & Corruption > Foreign Policy > Healthcare > Immigration > Jobs & Trade > **LGBT Issues** > Poverty > Reproductive Rights > Retirement Security > Rural Community Issues > Urban Community Issues > Veterans Affairs > War in Iraq > Other So go put in your 2¢ and become part of the solution. Let’s fix this fucking country together, dammit! [http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/pesurvpage1](http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/pesurvpage1) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/339 "2008-12-27T08:12:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Warren is a threat to gays; gays are not a threat to Warren. You are a threat to humanity. Your desire to exterminate the faithful is mitigated only by your powerless ineptitude. Luckily for us all, you are an impotent hack, for whom sloth is a natural inclination. You are a toothless Chihuahua. A blind sniper. An opinionated skank. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/340 "2008-12-27T08:22:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > You are a threat to humanity. Your desire to exterminate the faithful is mitigated only by your powerless ineptitude. Luckily for us all, you are an impotent hack, for whom sloth is a natural inclination. You are a toothless Chihuahua. A blind sniper. An opinionated skank. And you are a raving loony. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=18)