# Rick Warren. Rick fucking Warren. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647 "2008-12-17T22:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/61 "2008-12-18T19:53:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Says the man who’s allowed to legally marry his Doper girlfriend. I know there was at least one gay Doper who congratulated you in that thread, **Inigo**. I don’t have a list of responses to that thread but I’m sure there were more than just me. > > Warren was a big factor in making sure that California queer folk don’t have that option. At all. My point wasn’t that I don’t give a damn about gays having the right to state-recognized marriages(I’ve made it clear before that I am firmly against the bans). Personally I don’t think the state should have ANYTHING to do with marriage at all because I see it as a spiritual union that has fuckall to do with government. It’s really not that far away from granting rights to one Christian denomination while denying them to another. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/62 "2008-12-18T19:54:40Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is all valid, but none of it will be affected one way or the other by who gives the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. I know that’s what people think is true, but how about this: changes like these, civil rights changes, require leadership. And they require that leadership to be courageous, and in Mr. Obama’s own words, audacious. And consistent. Perhaps even unpopular. Kind of like Lincoln during the civil war. Letting discrimination go, unremarked upon, or worse, implicitly endorsing it, is not progressive, is not courageous, is not audacious. Leaders were courageous and audacious and consistent on Obama’s behalf and it got him to where he is today: the leader of the free world. I absolutely expect no less from him, and I had hoped that he would find it insulting that anyone would. That is why I am disappointed and that’s why I think it _does_ matter. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/63 "2008-12-18T20:03:40Z")
> [@jellyblue](#): > > I know that’s what people think is true, but how about this: changes like these, civil rights changes, require leadership. And they require that leadership to be courageous, and in Mr. Obama’s own words, audacious. And consistent. Perhaps even unpopular. Kind of like Lincoln during the civil war. Letting discrimination go, unremarked upon, or worse, implicitly endorsing it, is not progressive, is not courageous, is not audacious… [QUOTE=PE Obama] “I think that it is no secret that I am a fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans,” he said. “It is something that I have been consistent on, and I intend to continue to be consistent on during my presidency.” [/QUOTE] Again, I don’t think it’s as simple as ‘silence is acceptance’ or ‘you’re either with us or against us.’ It’s about showing respect for people who’s views are different from, and sometimes even in conflict with, your own. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/64 "2008-12-18T20:08:34Z")
It is history, We start off the ceremony with some religious nut chanting. One is as good as another. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/65 "2008-12-18T20:09:17Z")
I know, why don’t we stop having this superstitious nonsense at government functions? Might as well be asking Papa Smurf for a good rain season. ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/66 "2008-12-18T20:10:44Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > My point was that hyper-focusing on an agenda item that is important to you, to the exclusion of everything else; that denouncing someone in whole because they disagree with you in part; is not reasonable. I plucked Phelps because he is unyielding and unrelenting in his pursuit of persecution. And while I’m all for leaving marriage up to the parties involved and prying it loose from the clutches of the state, it seems equally mad to me to despise warren simply because the good he does isn’t the good you would do. It seems equally mad to me to not recognize the impasse that exists between one group who believes gay marriage would be beneficial to society and the other side who believes in their hearts, the opposite to be true. Both sides want the other to compromise their morals. Why not accept the fact that the world would be a pretty dull and stagnant place if everyone had exactly the same values—to admit that would be to admit that there is such a thing as ‘moral truth’ and there simply is no such thing. > > And yeah, Obama threw the right wing a frickin’ bone. He had to if he expects to get anything done. Like, for instance, earning credibility with The Right (he pretty much owns The Left) so he can go on to encourage us to break down the stereotypes and fears we all have about each other. Gay marriage has come dangerously close to being federally outlawed because a LOT of people think it should be so. And they will continue to think it should be so until tolerance becomes a way of life in the US. And it won’t become a way of life if our leadership doesn’t start with gestures like this one which effectively say, “Everyone knows we don’t agree on everything, but I’m willing to show you honor nonetheless.” Don’t you get that hate starts with fear? And that by destroying fear, you undermine hate? The US has come a long way with civil rights, we’re not where we should be but we’re looking forward now and not back. **Inigo** , nobody gets married or not because it’s “good for society”, at least not in this day in age. Apparently people DON’T want us to get married because they think it would be BAD for society somehow, or gives them the heebie jeebies, but we want to get married for the same reason you do: because we love another human being. People started “tolerating” gay teachers when they saw gay teachers. They got comfortable with their gay co-workers when they realized they had gay coworkers. They accepted their gay children when their children came out. People are still uncomfortable with gays in the military because, as far as they can tell, there aren’t any. And they aren’t ALLOWED to know if there are any. People are uncomfortable with gay marriage because there are no gay married couples. When there are, they will adjust, NOT the other way around. This is not about hate or fear or devisiveness, it’s about love. And anybody who says one person’s love (or skin color or ethnic heritage) is unacceptable or not as good as everyone else’s should not be chosen to introduce someone who is aspiring to be inclusive. Upon preview, your last comment: respect someone’s beliefs are not the same as endorsing them. He can respect Warren’s right to his beliefs and have someone else speak. And it’s really difficult to respect someone’s beliefs when they want to affect what YOU do instead of just what THEY do. Don’t believe in eating pork? Fine, don’t eat any. Don’t make bacon illegal for everyone though. ---
**Author:** ![jkusters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jkusters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkusters)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/67 "2008-12-18T20:12:13Z")
> [@](#): > > President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday defended his pick of evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at his inauguration next month as one of “a wide range of viewpoints that are presented.” > > “And that’s how it should be, because that’s what America is about,” Obama said responding to a question at a news conference about his and Warren’s differences on social issues. “That’s part of the magic of this country is that we are diverse and noisy and opinionated.” [CNN](http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/18/obama.warren/) If Mr. Obama is so insistent in embracing all viewpoints, even the ones which are controversial, will his next opportunity to invite a preacher to do an invocation or opening prayer be a preacher who preaches a message of separation of races and a return to slavery? No? Why not? It’s a different opinion, and one that is controversial, and shouldn’t we be embracing all viewpoints including the ones he disagrees with, the ones that are diverse, noisy, and opinionated? Yeah, I don’t buy his stated reasons. This is about pandering to the religious right, and the GLBTs be damned. Thanks, man. Appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/68 "2008-12-18T20:15:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m gay. How about if I tell you to get over yourself? Thanks for the suggestion, but I’ll continue to care about your rights, if you don’t mind. > [@Miller](#): > > it’s a bone thrown to the right-wing god botherers so they’re less likely to interfere with him when he tries to do something that actually matters. Are you kidding? Right wingers will do their utmost very best over the next 4-8 years to derail Obama. Witness the efforts to tie him with Blago. Witness the flurry of lawsuits clogging up the system regarding his freaking birth certificate. Freeper types will NEVER accept Obama as president and will fight him at every turn. “Less likely”? Holy shit, are you serious? His meaningless gesture makes no difference whatsoever to neocon fundies, but it means something to those who didn’t get to fully enjoy election day, and now can’t fully enjoy Inaguration day. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/69 "2008-12-18T21:07:51Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Thanks for the suggestion, but I’ll continue to care about your rights, if you don’t mind. That’s super duper of you, really, but let’s keep in mind that going off your nut because Obama won’t wish this chucklehead into the cornfield doesn’t do any good for anybody. My rights aren’t going to be effected one way or the other by letting this guy speak. On the otherhand, throwing a tantrum because Obama isn’t instituting loyalty tests for guests at his floor show doesn’t do wonders for the image of the left in general, or (in this case) the gay rights movement in particular. So as much as I genuinely appreciate your support, I’d appreciate it even more if it were _quiet_ support. > [@](#): > > Are you kidding? Right wingers will do their utmost very best over the next 4-8 years to derail Obama. Witness the efforts to tie him with Blago. Witness the flurry of lawsuits clogging up the system regarding his freaking birth certificate. Freeper types will NEVER accept Obama as president and will fight him at every turn. “Less likely”? Holy shit, are you serious? Well, I’m just thankful that the American left is so totally devoid of that sort of mindless partisanship, sweeping generalizations, and kneejerk venom. > [@](#): > > His meaningless gesture makes no difference whatsoever to neocon fundies, but it means something to those who didn’t get to fully enjoy election day, and now can’t fully enjoy Inaguration day. In other words, you don’t want an American president, you want a Democrat president, and anyone who doesn’t agree with you can go fuck themselves. I’d point out that that is precisely the attitude that led to so many failures in the Bush administration, but somehow, I don’t think that would do much good. You don’t want someone who can do better than Bush, you just want someone who can fuck things up in your favor for a change, and now that it appears you’re not getting that, you’re throwing a hissyfit. Me? I’m just glad we got the candidate _I_ voted for, and not the candidate _you_ voted for. I don’t think we could survive another four years of your sort of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/70 "2008-12-18T21:15:03Z")
I want someone who has compassion for people whose rights are stomped on. If that’s a bad thing to want, then so be it. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/71 "2008-12-18T21:29:02Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Well then, perhaps you ought to bush up on that and get back to us. But I’ll give you a hint - changing the state constitution will considerably constrain what the court can do - and that was the point of Proposition 8. [Perhaps you ought to brush up on what the court can do and get back to us.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/20/us/20marriage.html?ref=us) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/72 "2008-12-18T21:38:53Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I want someone who has compassion for people whose rights are stomped on. If that’s a bad thing to want, then so be it. And that is who we believe Mr. O to be. But charging onto the stage and thrashing about with his whuppin’ stick isn’t going to make anything better. I’m no fan of Warren, but neither am I a fan of political oversteering that marginalizes The Right for the next 8 years. I think Obama’s dead on. Realistically the only change I see him bringing in the next two years is reversing a good deal of the political polarization in this country. That’s going to mean, in some cases, shaking The Devil’s hand in order to get him to row in the same direction as everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/73 "2008-12-18T21:39:54Z")
Personally, I think Obama has gone from “reach across” to “reach around”. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/74 "2008-12-18T21:41:13Z")
Well, at least he’s got the common courtesey for that. Bush didn’t even spit on the hole to lube it up. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/75 "2008-12-18T21:48:17Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I’m no fan of Warren, but neither am I a fan of political oversteering that marginalizes The Right for the next 8 years. I think Obama’s dead on. Realistically the only change I see him bringing in the next two years is reversing a good deal of the political polarization in this country. That’s going to mean, in some cases, shaking The Devil’s hand in order to get him to row in the same direction as everyone else. Try that with the Devil, and he’ll take the opportunity to yank you out of the boat into the water. There’s no **point** in trying to compromise with these people. They are neither reasonable, nor trustworthy, nor willing to compromise, nor rational. The Democrats keep trying, and they keep getting screwed over because of it. They have to break down and realize that the Right is implacably hostile to them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/76 "2008-12-18T21:58:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s a little odd, but probably a good reaching-across-the-aisle gesture. Reaching across the aisle to one more liar in the name of the Lord? Reaching across the aisle to someone who’d assassinate some figurehead in the name of Christ? That’s freakin’ _crazy_. It’s one thing to reach out to an honest adversary. But the thing to do with liars and hypocrites is marginalize them. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/77 "2008-12-18T22:00:26Z")
I have just removed my Obama yard sign that I’ve had up since June. I no longer support him or whatever agenda he pretends to stand for. If he wants to make nice with people who insist on denying me my rights, he can do it without my blessing. I realize this makes me a narrow-minded, bigoted ideologue. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/78 "2008-12-18T22:12:12Z")
Oh, Waaaaah! Obama won’t be mean to people I hate. Maybe the racists were right after all. Waaaaah! ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/79 "2008-12-18T22:16:10Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Try that with the Devil, and he’ll take the opportunity to yank you out of the boat into the water. There’s no **point** in trying to compromise with these people. They are neither reasonable, nor trustworthy, nor willing to compromise, nor rational. The Democrats keep trying, and they keep getting screwed over because of it. They have to break down and realize that the Right is implacably hostile to them. Every single Republican is not pure evil. Some are, but a lot aren’t. Obama is doing well to approach them, much as I disagree with the specific thing he is doing in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647/80 "2008-12-18T22:39:20Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Every single Republican is not pure evil. Some are, but a lot aren’t. So ? The leadership is evil \*; the organization as a whole is. - Not “pure evil”; you won’t find that in the real world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-rick-fucking-warren/477647.md?page=5)