# Rick Warren, Saddleback Church **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 19, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618 "2010-02-19T13:16:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/1 "2010-02-19T13:16:45Z")
Ah yes, the new face of Conservative Christianity. A man so bold as to posit people ought to do something about global warming. A man of such love, he actually met with Barrack Obama. The new wave of the future the man is. So he was asked about the Kill the Gays Bill in Uganda and boldly said: “The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.” Absolutely! If a country wants to wipe out a class of people, that is none of his business, no siree! God’s teachings apply to the US only. That’s why He speaks English you know. What a moral bankrupt! He is a minister but does not want to use his ministry to save lives. Freakin’ wonderful. Here is the link to the Washington Post. Excuse its primitive nature. My Link-o-matic has not worked in ages. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021605124.html?hpid=opinionsbox1](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/16/AR2010021605124.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/2 "2010-02-19T15:17:01Z")
I’m not at all going to defend Rick Warren, but is it possible his church has missionaries over there? He might not want to be too harsh on the government is there is a chance someone’s life could be put in jeopardy from his comments. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/3 "2010-02-19T15:23:31Z")
Fuck his missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/4 "2010-02-19T15:31:08Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fuck his missionaries. Not in Uganda; it’s a capital crime there! :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/5 "2010-02-19T15:37:13Z")
Pastor Warren has spoken out against the law much more since the Nov 29th statement. This puts the “political non-interference” quote in context adds a big But… and as PeeWee Herman has said “We all have a big But”. > **[Saddleback Church](https://www.youtube.com/saddlebackchurch#p/u/10/1jmGu9o4fDE)** > > The Official YouTube Site for Saddleback Church. We are passionate about loving God and people. Visit saddleback.com for more info. Parker need to get her Google-fu on. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/6 "2010-02-19T15:41:29Z")
Also speaking of conservative Christianity the Catholic channel EWTN is now hosting guests who agree with torture as a policy and they are just fine with that. Andrew Sullivan is having a fit. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/7 "2010-02-19T16:09:36Z")
Yes, I saw that on the Daily Dish. Why would one be a cardinal or bishop if not to scold the wicked? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/8 "2010-02-19T16:14:58Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Not in Uganda; it’s a capital crime there! :dubious: Maybe they’re girl missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/9 "2010-02-19T16:55:52Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Maybe they’re girl missionaries. Or maybe they’re girl reverse cowboys. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/10 "2010-02-19T18:04:59Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > I’m not at all going to defend Rick Warren, but is it possible his church has missionaries over there? He might not want to be too harsh on the government is there is a chance someone’s life could be put in jeopardy from his comments. Rick Warren was invited to start a “Purpose Driven” program in Uganda by its own (Anglican) archbishop, and he has referred to Uganda as a purpose driven country. His mentor, Peter Wagner, was one of the primary influences behind the bill’s creation. ETA: Warren has [spoken out against the bill](http://englisheclectic.blogspot.com/2009/12/rck-warren-letter-to-pastors-of-uganda_4420.html), although he refused to do so at first. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/11 "2010-02-19T18:10:36Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Yes, I saw that on the Daily Dish. Why would one be a cardinal or bishop if not to scold the wicked? For the opportunity to bugger young boys with impunity, duh! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/12 "2010-02-19T19:09:11Z")
[Related story](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6991023.ece). Orombi is behind some of the recent developments in American Anglicanism. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/13 "2010-02-19T19:52:50Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > [Related story](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6991023.ece). > > Orombi is behind some of the recent developments in American Anglicanism. From your story: > [@](#): > > Ugandas churches are themselves strongly homophobic — Archbishop Henry Orombi and Pastor Martin Sempe have been leading a campaign in support of the bill. This is not just misleading, it is an out-and-out lie, at least concerning Archbishop Orombi. [CHURCH OF UGANDA’S POSITION ON THE ANTI HOMOSEXUALITY BILL 2009](http://chelmsfordanglicanmainstream.blogspot.com/2010/02/church-of-ugandas-position-on-anti.html) > [@](#): > > We affirm the need for a Bill in light of the existing loopholes in the current legislation, specifically sections 145-148 of the Penal Code Act (Cap 120), which do not explicitly address the other issues associated with homosexual practice such as procurement, recruitment and dissemination of literature. That notwithstanding, the ideal situation would be one where necessary amendment is made to existing legislation to also enumerate other sexual offences such as lesbianism and bestiality. This would not require a fresh bill on homosexuality per se but rather an amendment to the existing provisions.. So, without question the Church of Uganda and Abp Orombi are anti-homosexuality. However, they do not support the proposed legislation nor the adoption of capital punishment for offenders. Yet that doesn’t keep liberal Anglicans from spreading the lie. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/14 "2010-02-19T19:56:03Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Also speaking of conservative Christianity the Catholic channel EWTN is now hosting guests who agree with torture as a policy and they are just fine with that. Andrew Sullivan is having a fit. To be fair, torturing confessions out of people is something of a Catholic tradition. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/15 "2010-02-19T20:14:03Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > So, without question the Church of Uganda and Abp Orombi are anti-homosexuality. However, they do not support the proposed legislation nor the adoption of capital punishment for offenders. Yet that doesn’t keep liberal Anglicans from spreading the lie. It doesn’t say anything in that quote or the entire piece as linked about whether the support the adoption of capital punishment for homosexual “offenses”, even if they do not support the exact proposed legislation. Frankly, considering how horrifying that proposal is to any right-thinking person, I would have thought they would have made their opposition _very_ clear. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/16 "2010-02-19T20:35:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It doesn’t say anything in that quote or the entire piece as linked about whether the support the adoption of capital punishment for homosexual “offenses”, even if they do not support the exact proposed legislation. Not explicitly, but they recommend shelving the new proposed legislation altogether and modifying current legislation to close “loopholes.” The current legislation does not include capital punishment. The statement also resists the proposed law’s attempt to criminalize the failure to report anyone known to be homosexual. It asks parliment to “Ensure that the law protects the confidentiality of medical, pastoral and counseling relationships, including those that disclose homosexual practice in accordance with the relevant professional codes of ethics.” The very idea of criminalizing homosexuality _at all_ is abhorrent to us, and rightly so. But to say “Archbishop Henry Orombi … [has] been leading a campaign in support of the bill” is the opposite of true. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/17 "2010-02-19T21:59:24Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Not explicitly, but they recommend shelving the new proposed legislation altogether and modifying current legislation to close “loopholes.” The current legislation does not include capital punishment. > > The statement also resists the proposed law’s attempt to criminalize the failure to report anyone known to be homosexual. It asks parliment to “Ensure that the law protects the confidentiality of medical, pastoral and counseling relationships, including those that disclose homosexual practice in accordance with the relevant professional codes of ethics.” > > The very idea of criminalizing homosexuality _at all_ is abhorrent to us, and rightly so. But to say “Archbishop Henry Orombi … [has] been leading a campaign in support of the bill” is the opposite of true. “Closing loopholes” suggests they believe the law should be tougher than it is. I also read through the while link, and I don’t see anything that even suggests that the death penalty is inappropriate. And while these church folk apparently don’t want to criminalize non-reporting by doctors or priests, it would seem ok to them if was a crime as far as friends and families go. These people are seriously fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/18 "2010-02-19T22:21:36Z")
**Skammer** is correct. But my comment against Orombe, from the perspective of a ECUSA member, is quite accurate – he is one of several prelates who have backed schismatic movements within American Anglicanism. (Whether you approve of ECUSA, ACNA, or anything else, this is factually true; he issued a 2006 statement claiming that there was no valid Anglican church in the U.S.) It was the _Times_ which described him as homophobic, an arguably accurate position even if he doesn’t support capital punishment for homosexual acts. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/19 "2010-02-19T22:40:29Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > “Closing loopholes” suggests they believe the law should be tougher than it is. I also read through the while link, and I don’t see anything that even suggests that the death penalty is inappropriate. And while these church folk apparently don’t want to criminalize non-reporting by doctors or priests, it would seem ok to them if was a crime as far as friends and families go. Three “loopholes” are named at the beginning of the document: 1) Protecting vulnerabilities of the “boy child”; 2) _Proportionality in sentencing_; and 3) ensuring that sexual orientation is excluded as a protected human right. It’s true that “proportionality” is not further defined, but it seems like they are suggesting that current penalties need to be moderated. It’s still homophobic and outrageous, especially from the perspective of our culture. I’m just fighting the meme that Orombi and the Anglican Church of Uganda support the legislation that’s been proposed which is by all accounts much harsher. > [@Polycarp](#): > > **Skammer** is correct. But my comment against Orombe, from the perspective of a ECUSA member, is quite accurate – he is one of several prelates who have backed schismatic movements within American Anglicanism. (Whether you approve of ECUSA, ACNA, or anything else, this is factually true; he issued a 2006 statement claiming that there was no valid Anglican church in the U.S.) It was the _Times_ which described him as homophobic, an arguably accurate position even if he doesn’t support capital punishment for homosexual acts. I agree with all this, and although I share a certain sympathy for ACNA and have many friends in that church, I think their withdrawal from the Episcopal Church and partnership with Orombi and others has been a grand ecclesiastical error. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618/20 "2010-02-20T01:02:59Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fuck his missionaries. I would, but all they do is the same position every time. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warren-saddleback-church/529618.md?page=2)