# Rick Warren's Forum Obama & McCain - thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 16, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231 "2008-08-16T16:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/1 "2008-08-16T16:32:23Z")
I’m a Warren fan, voting for McCain, disagree with but don’t dislike Obama. I’ll be gone while this happens but I’m opening up the discussion now. Btw, does anyone just not like the idea of them meeting with Warren? This link just happened to be among the first Googled up, but I thought a lot of Dopers might appreciate it being The New Republic… > **[The New Republic](https://newrepublic.com/)** > > Founded in 1914, The New Republic is a media organization dedicated to addressing today’s most critical issues. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/2 "2008-08-16T16:37:13Z")
Anyone care about separation of church and state. Churches that get involved in politics should lose their tax exemptions. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/3 "2008-08-16T16:48:46Z")
Not a Christian, here, not in the classical sense, anyway. The fact that Rick Warren is inclines me toward distrusting him, when matters of public policy are involved, however tangentially. The papers seem to be treating this _tete-a-tete_ as a pretty benign exercise, but ever since I first heard about it, I’ve thought that the most fortuitous thing that could happen for Senator Obama is to have all of the tires in his motorcade mysteriously blow out before they head down to Orange County. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/4 "2008-08-16T16:55:28Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] Anyone care about separation of church and state. Churches that get involved in politics should lose their tax exemptions. [/QUOTE] No. As long as no endorsement is given, there is no reason that candidates can’t interact with clergy. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/5 "2008-08-16T16:56:19Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] I’m a Warren fan, voting for McCain, disagree with but don’t dislike Obama. I’ll be gone while this happens but I’m opening up the discussion now. Btw, does anyone just not like the idea of them meeting with Warren? [/quote] Can’t imagine why I wouldn’t. > [@](#): > > This link just happened to be among the first Googled up, but I thought a lot of Dopers might appreciate it being The New Republic… Why? Are they under new management as of sometime in the past few weeks? And is this being televised, or YouTubed after the fact, or are transcripts being posted somewhere? Would be nice to know what’s actually being said in this conversation, or set of conversations. If evangelicals and other Christians who take their faith seriously are actually watching this, I think it’ll be a great opportunity for Obama. McCain may have all the right positions on all the right culture-war issues, but hell, Michael Moore probably has greater spiritual depth than McCain, whose main faith story is of when _someone else_ showed a cross _to him_. Obama, on the other hand, has both the intellectual and the spiritual depth to get past topics that there are five verses about in the Bible, get to the heart of the Gospel message, and relate it to the things he stands for. I’ll look forward to hearing how this comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/6 "2008-08-16T17:09:58Z")
I think Warren is a tool for selling tickets for (reportedly) up to $2000 each to celebs, high-powered types and the like, when his own parishioners were completely shut out. This was after his statements about how this was an opportunity for the candidates to meet with and answer questions from “real Christian folks.” Okay, I’ll admit that I think he’s a tool in general, too. His statement on the “church & state” separation was pretty funny- he argued that while church and state should be separate, “faith” and state are completely entwined. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/7 "2008-08-16T17:13:10Z")
Nope, it’s not a matter of separation of church and state directly. But it is a case of electioneering, pandering, and angling for votes from the part of the electorate that cares ( right wing / conservatives / Christian right/ whatever term). If one of them were to have refused this audience with this self-appointed pope, he’d be trashed by that big part of the voting public. And, possibly, lose some votes from the undecided, mushy middle - causing big problems for someone hoping to win this thing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/8 "2008-08-16T17:18:50Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And is this being televised, or YouTubed after the fact, or are transcripts being posted somewhere? [/QUOTE] CNN 5-7PM Eastern Time. I set my DVR. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/9 "2008-08-16T17:38:09Z")
I guess I don’t know why Obama would want to be part of a Republican infomercial. He already got tricked into being in a Hilary infomercial in the primary “debate”. You’d think he’d learn. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/10 "2008-08-16T17:40:31Z")
Obama, I fear, has been coopted by the campaign industry. Independence of thought and creativity have to be put on hold for a while, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/11 "2008-08-16T17:45:13Z")
Warren, on the CBS news last night, seemed to have a sincere interest in his religion being centered on more than just abortion or the ten commandments in schools. Stuff like helping the needy, etc. He could have just been bullshitting, I guess. I don’t know if this is a good idea for the candidates, but it seems to that they have equal shots at pissing off somebody, and I don’t see it as necessarily being a Republican forum. Sometimes people forget that many of the good points about religion are reflected in Democratic stances. Stuff like helping the needy, etc. I say go for it. ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/12 "2008-08-16T17:54:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] CNN 5-7PM Eastern Time. I set my DVR. [/QUOTE] My TV schedule says 8-10 PM Eastern time (which would be 5-7 Pacific time). ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/13 "2008-08-16T18:01:16Z")
[QUOTE=EJsGirl] I think Warren is a tool for selling tickets for (reportedly) up to $2000 each to celebs, high-powered types and the like, when his own parishioners were completely shut out. This was after his statements about how this was an opportunity for the candidates to meet with and answer questions from “real Christian folks.” [/QUOTE] Cite? Btw, Warren’s been raked over the coals before for having a AIDS form in which Obama participated. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/14 "2008-08-16T18:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] Stuff like helping the needy, etc. He could have just been bullshitting, I guess. [/QUOTE] My guess is bullshitting. Warren’s Saddleback Church isn’t just a megachurch- it’s a neighborhood. Seriously. It is a multi-million dollar complex (like probably in the hundreds) with maybe a dozen structures, parking, retail, the whole nine yards. Old Warren must feel pretty needy, what with everything he’s done for himself… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/15 "2008-08-16T18:07:57Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Cite? Btw, Warren’s been raked over the coals before for having a AIDS form in which Obama participated. [/QUOTE] [http://totalbuzz.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/13/mccain-and-obama-visit-saddleback-ticket-confusion/](http://totalbuzz.freedomblogging.com/2008/08/13/mccain-and-obama-visit-saddleback-ticket-confusion/) Found it. A bit more complicated than stated. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/16 "2008-08-16T18:09:39Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Cite? [/QUOTE] One memo from Pastor Rick himself- > [@](#): > > ``` > August 6, 2008 > > Dear Saddleback Family, > > TICKETS FOR THE AUGUST CIVIL FORUM > > Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond to our church survey asking for your ideas on distributing the tickets for our August Civil Forum with John McCain and Barack Obama. We received thousands of suggestions! > > WHAT WE HEARD FROM YOU: > > Our congregation has over 100,000 attenders and members, but we only have about 5,000 seats available! > -Some of us cannot afford to pay anything. > -Most are eager to pay any amount to be a part of history and help cover the costs. > -Many suggested that some tickets be given to honor those who've faithfully served and sacrificed for our church family for years. The most mentioned were our charter members, our children's and student ministries volunteers, and those who serve us as small group hosts. > -Some suggested we provide some free tickets to poor students from different schools to encourage learning about the American political system. (We will do this for a small number.) > -Over 75% of you said we should charge for the seats in the Worship Center since the event is not a worship service. > -Many pointed out that February 17, 2009 is the last day of "analog" television broadcasting in America. After that date, all broadcasting will be required to be in digital format, so Saddleback needs to upgrade to new digital cameras. (Our 15 year old cameras are analog.) > > YOU MAY APPLY FOR 5 TYPES OF TICKET DRAWINGS: > > You can place your name in as many drawings as you like. > > DRAWING A: For FREE seats in Video Venues (Refinery, Tent 2, and Tent 3) > > DRAWING B: Charter members who joined between 1980-84, Small Group Hosts, and Volunteers who serve in children's or student ministries may apply for the drawing of FREE seats in the worship center. > > DRAWING C: To buy a $500 Bleacher seat in the Worship Center. > > DRAWING D: To buy a $1,000 Angled Floor seat in the Worship Center. > > DRAWING E: To buy a $2,000 Front Center seat in the Worship Center. > > You may apply online here or by phone at (949) 609-8082. However, online applications will be processed FIRST. Call ONLY if you DO NOT have email or internet access. > > If your name is drawn for any of these groups we will contact you with instructions. > > THE DEADLINE TO APPLY IS 8AM, FRIDAY, AUGUST 8. > > Apply right now! > > Pastor Rick > > ``` Though, it doesn’t list how man will be available to parishioners. Also, the church “only” has about 22,000 members, but the bigger number looks good- attendees might only mean single-visit folks. [Here’s a local story about ticket distribution](http://www.ocregister.com/articles/church-tickets-event-2125034-ticket-burger), and from the same website- > [@](#): > > "We couldn’t accommodate everybody,‘’ said Ross. He said church officials had hoped to have some tickets for the public but that became impossible when they realized they couldn’t satisfy all the church members who wanted a chance to see the Republican and Democratic presidential hopefuls. > > Ross said Saddleback decided to charge admission to the event because of the expenses to put it on and provide television feeds to a host of networks, including CNN and Fox, both of which will broadcast the event live. > > "The original intent was that anything beyond a production costs would go toward the PEACE Plan,‘’ Ross said. That project funds the church’s global missions. “It’s a way for Saddleback members to participate in that effort.” > > Orange County Democratic Party Chairman Frank Barbaro said he is concerned that charging for tickets – with tickets costing up to $2,000 – will shut out many Obama supporters from the event. > > "I don’t think anybody thought going in that this was going to be a fundraiser,‘’ said Barbaro, who as of now hasn’t received any tickets for local Democratic activists. "It seems that this will skew the audience to a more well-heeled Republican element.‘’ > > Barbaro said he knows there were many Saddleback church members, "especially young Democrats, who had been online trying to get in and now will have absolutely no chance to see this by virtue of the expense.‘’ > > With prices for tickets ranging from $500 to $2,000, the church could take in between $2.5 million and $10 million, based on 5,000 tickets being available. But hey- it’s his business, he should be able to conduct it however he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/17 "2008-08-16T19:12:30Z")
8-10 PM EDT on CNN and MSNBC. Pre-Game programming on MSNBC from 5-8 EDT. ETA: Equal time to both. Obama is religious, McCain is not. What’s not to like? Obama has nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/18 "2008-08-16T19:38:21Z")
[QUOTE=ErinPuff] My TV schedule says 8-10 PM Eastern time (which would be 5-7 Pacific time). [/QUOTE] Yes, you are right. I did the conversion the wrong way. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/19 "2008-08-16T20:02:46Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] ETA: Equal time to both. Obama is religious, McCain is not. What’s not to like? Obama has nothing to lose. [/QUOTE] Unless Warren is going to sandbag Obama (and I don’t think that he is), this is a winner for him. McCain’s a phony Christian with serious moral deficiencies, while Obama can recite chapter and verse. I predict McCain will have carefully memorized certain pasages, but will use them in inappropriate ways. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2008, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231/20 "2008-08-16T20:09:17Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] ETA: Equal time to both. Obama is religious, McCain is not. What’s not to like? Obama has nothing to lose. [/QUOTE] But John McCain is a member of the North Phoenix Baptist Church, so he must be religious, right? Right? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rick-warrens-forum-obama-mccain-thoughts/460231.md?page=2)